Peter Burgin: pro auction tips from 15,000+ auctions in QLD real estate

In episode 27 of Raising the Bar, George Sourris from Empire Legal sits down with Peter Burgin, Chief Auctioneer and Head of Performance at Ray White Collective, to unpack what it takes to build trust, perform at a high level and consistently deliver results in Queensland real estate.

With more than 23 years in the industry, over 15,000 auctions called and an REIQ Auctioneer of the Year title to his name, Peter is widely regarded as one of Queensland’s most respected auctioneers.

We cover:

- The journey: how Peter went from auctioning bulldozers, excavators and farm equipment to becoming one of Queensland’s leading property auctioneers, the lessons he learnt from selling more than 1,000 lots a day and why understanding the entire sales process matters.

- What buyers and sellers get wrong about auctions: the biggest misconceptions Peter sees before auction day, common mistakes buyers make, why preparation is everything and how great agents and auctioneers work together to create the best possible outcome.

- Performance, leadership and the future of auctions: Peter’s role as Head of Performance at Ray White Collective, how he helps develop the next generation of agents, the importance of trust and relationships and why continual improvement is critical in a changing property market.

From auction strategy and buyer psychology to leadership, performance and raising industry standards, this episode is packed with insights for agents, business owners and anyone involved in property.

Contact Peter: https://raywhitebulimba.com.au/agents/peter-burgin/179266
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More podcast episodes: https://empirelegal.com.au/podcast/
Check out our blogs: https://empirelegal.com.au/blog/
Website: https://empirelegal.com.au/

Transcript

Peter:  Think about the relationships, play the long game, and, and you'll be right. And just obviously work hard. But other than that, enjoy life as well. Cheap conveyancing is, you get what you pay for. It just leaves people disgruntled, and that's why we've got a broken relationship with the buying market.

George:  All right. We are back for another episode of the Raising the Bar podcast, where we story tell excellence in Queensland property.

Peter:  Looking forward to this.

George:  I've got an excellent guest here today. Mr. Peter Burgin. Mate, thanks for coming on the show.

Peter:  My pleasure, mate. Appreciate you asking me. I'm very flattered.

George:  I'm glad we got to bring this one to life. Yeah. Beautiful. You've been on my hit list for a while, so I'm glad we're here doing it. Oh, that's good, mate. I'll just

Peter:  pretend I'm busy, so. Yeah. All

George:  right, mate, I'm just going to read straight off this and then we'll get into the fun stuff. Okay. Before he ever called a property auction, he was selling heavy machinery in a paddock. Bulldozers, excavators, farm equipment, six years of plant and equipment auctioneering, where the rooms are hard, the operators are harder, and there's no script to fall back on. That [00:01:00]foundation built one of Queensland's most respected voices in Queensland real estate. 23 years+, 15,000+ auctions. That's a lot of numbers, mate. That's a lot of

Peter:  auctions. Sounds like a lot of, "Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome."

George:  But legit though, 15,000 plus auctions. Yeah. Must- yeah, absolutely. Yep. 100%. Yep. REIQ Auctioneer of the Year, and now Chief Auctioneer and Head of Performance at Ray White Collective. You're not just calling auctions, you're shaping the performance culture of one of the biggest real estate networks in the country. Today on Raising the Bar, Peter Burgin.

Peter:  Thank you, George. That's a very kind introduction. You always feel a bit uncomfortable when you, when you hear that stuff. But I guess, yeah, you look back over 23 years and the numbers accumulate, and they do... It's, yeah, it's a lot. But it's been great. It's been an amazing journey, and I've loved watching the industry change and the people change within it as well.

George:  Oh, mate, I'm keen to hear what you have to say today. I think this'll be really cool. Hopefully. Hopefully. I'm not done yet though. No. [00:02:00] Empire Legal has worked alongside some brilliant agents across Brisbane over the years, and Peter, your reputation precedes you. Anyone who's spent time in Queensland property would know the name. You were former head of auctions at the Place Estate Agent Group for a long, long time, over 20 years, to now leading one of the best real estate offices in the whole state. Mate, the purpose of this podcast, it's called Raising the Bar.

Peter:  Sure.

George:  We want to story tell excellence in Queensland property, because the industry deserves better, and we're here to inspire change as well. So these sorts of conversations are there to make our industry better. Okay. And guests that sit in this seat, I believe, have either done that, or are on the path to doing that.

Peter:  Beautiful. Okay.

George:  Mate, we're going to kick straight off into the first point, which I learnt a lot in the prep for this about you. I always- Yeah ... I always knew you as Peter Burgin, who was at Place, and now you're running Ray White. But there was a whole nother life before that, wasn't there? Yeah, yeah,

Peter:  Absolutely.

George:  Tell me a bit about that. I've got here: plant and equipment auctioneering, six years of selling heavy machinery, [00:03:00]before you ever called a home.

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  Let's hear a bit about that and then maybe transition into, maybe what that taught you and how you pivoted into property.

Peter:  Yeah. Perfect. So yeah, that's a long time ago, but it was a, it was actually a great part of my life. It was really, really enjoyable. And it wasn't just heavy machinery, it was anything. So I worked for a firm that was engaged by insolvency practitioners, and I guess that's a bit of a negative part of the commercial world, where businesses might've been going broke or under financial duress.

Welcome to the Raising the Bar podcast, where we story tell excellence in Queensland Property. I'm your host, George Sourris from Empire Legal.

Peter:  ​So we would go in and value all of their assets, all of their plant and equipment, not the real estate. And then the insolvency practitioners would try and see if they could trade the company out of, I guess what would be a difficult situation. But [00:04:00]sometimes there's just a reality around the fact that that wasn't possible, and so all of their assets had to be sold off. And that's where we would come in and stand by the valuation and then I guess set up and conduct an auction, and market that auction right throughout Queensland. So we got to go to some wonderful places, some very far and away places outback. Yeah. Met some incredible people, in some difficult situations as well, but, it's a part of my, I guess, working life that I look back with great fondness. But there was probably always this calling to get into residential real estate, and I was very grateful for the opportunity to hone my auctioneering skills in that environment. It's the same but different. We would do sometimes 1,000 lots a day, and in terms of tempo, you would have to try and keep to 100 lots an hour. So it was very, very fast work. Like almost

George:  two a minute.

Peter:  Yeah. One and a half a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because otherwise you just weren't going to get through the workload. And you'd split that between different auctioneers, so, you know, you'd [00:05:00] go for two or three hours in a go, and then off you'd go and someone else would jump in, you jump back up. And I met, I learnt from some wonderful people, so great part of my life. But you know what? It's fairly exhausting, and whilst it was enjoyable, I probably always had this calling to get into residential real estate. It was something I'd thought about doing before I got into that side of the business. But just the path didn't, I just didn't get there. So I delayed it, but my career in real estate was better off for having that experience, for sure.

George:  Yeah, let's talk about that, because it's probably a bit unique, especially for this audience. Like talking about auctioneering, but not in the property space. Yeah. Were there some transitional skills that you reckon that you benefited from by doing the auction house stuff first, with the plant?

Peter:  Yeah, absolutely. Because before you would auction the, uh, items, you had to value them, so a lot of research went into values, particularly with some tricky machinery. There's some really unique stuff out there, that is specific to certain industries. So you had to sort of get your head around that. You had to understand how to get the information that you needed to [00:06:00] assess value, and then you went through that marketing process. It's no different than you do with a house, and then you go through this sort of auction process, no different to what you do with a house. And, you know, it either gets to or beyond fair market value, and if it doesn't, then you need to start understanding why, and going through that process of communicating with people who are potentially looking at buying it, and also the people who were selling it, the insolvency practitioners. And then arriving at what would be a fair outcome. So transferable skills, absolutely. Yes. But yeah, just a different pace, and I guess a different part of the market.

George:  So, okay. So you're there and you're doing that for about six-odd years. Yeah. And then did you have a calling for real estate? Well, if you look back then, were you like, "Man, I want to get out of equipment. I want to sell, I want to auction houses."

Peter:  Yeah. Yeah, I did. I always wanted to get in real estate, as I mentioned, so it sort of just was a timing thing. At the time I was good friends with Paul Curtin from Place. They had just moved [00:07:00] Place. It was rebranded PRD Inner City East, to Place. Is

George:  that now the Bulimba office? Yeah. So the original office? Yeah. And- Yeah. Wow. So you were there from the start. Well,

Peter:  yeah, Bulimba and then West End. So I actually started at West End, which was their second office. I think they opened that within six months of, of changing the signage. Paul said, "Well, mate, what are you doing? Time's right, let's go. And so we did. So that was where I sort of got into it, and I guess I spent the first three and a half years in real estate as a salesperson who would call the odd auction.

George:  Mm-hmm.

Peter:  Because the market didn't have a high volume of auction activity back then. Yeah. I mean, you sort of have one or two every Saturday and, if they couldn't book you for 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock on a Saturday, they'd make it the next week. Right. We weren't doing them at five and six o'clock on Saturday afternoons or, you know- It's changed a lot. It has changed a lot.

George:  Even compared to, say, Sydney or Melbourne, our volumes are much lower than what happens down south, right?

Peter:  Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, it has changed over the years, but, look, and it, it's good to have been a part of that change, but [00:08:00] back then it wasn't a high volume environment at all. Plus I wanted to make sure I understood what it was like to be a salesperson. Wanted to understand how to prospect for business. I wanted to understand how to process a sale and communicate with our client, all those sorts of things. So it was really, really important that I did that, and balanced, I guess, the two for that first part of my real estate career, and then made that transition into becoming an auctioneer.

George:  Well, I think that's a really important point that you've just mentioned, is the fact that you went through the journey of being a selling agent. Yeah. I guess that'd make you a lot more relatable. You'd understand the speed bumps, the objections, all the stuff that is being felt by the seller, the buyer, even the selling agent, with you now as an auctioneer and in a different role with Head of Growth.

Peter:  Absolutely. You've lived through

George:  it all, right? You're not in an ivory tower going, "Oh, I think this is what it is." You're like, "Mate, I've done this." Yeah. I've been in your shoes, I've been in your shoes, and I'm in your shoes."

Peter:  Yeah. It gave me credibility with the selling agents, and the selling agents are the ones who have got to live and breathe it on a daily basis, that [00:09:00] challenging sale. And back then in the Queensland market, and certainly the Brisbane market, look, it was not easy. Our market's changed over the years, and it was very, very challenging. So, it was great to be a part of that process from start to finish with the agent, as opposed just to rocking up on auction day, being the auctioneer. I never want to be that kind of auctioneer.

George:  Yes.

Peter:  I've always resisted that.

George:  You're on the journey with them.

Peter:  Yeah, absolutely, and a resource that's available to them right throughout the course of the, that campaign, so.

George:  Well, mate, it's funny you say that. I reflect back a few years ago, I was doing a, like a roadshow, going around to different real estate offices, and we do a lot of work with Place. And I remember I was at Nundah with Drew and Pat, and then I saw you there. I'm like, "Oh, hey, Pete." And then I'm at Kangaroo Point and I saw you there. Yeah. And then I'm at New Farm and I saw you there. Yeah. So you really entrench yourself in that part of it. You're right. You're not just, roll in, do the auction, roll out. It's not that. You're actually part of the community where you're working. Yeah, absolutely.

Peter:  Yeah. Absolutely. I really do think that's just been critically important. When I look back, I would not change [00:10:00] the way that I approached that. It was a really important part of those relationships, which I've had for a very long time now and also, it, it helped the process along as well, and the clients got value out of it as well. They felt like there was a team behind the sale, it wasn't just one person. Yeah. You're not this external party. Yeah. You're actually, you're

George:  part

Peter:  of the process. Absolutely. Yeah. Someone who cared, and and they felt that, so-

George:  yeah - good. You said, uh, one of my favorite words, "relationships". Yeah. Yeah. Which we could probably talk the whole podcast on this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I truly believe between relationships and trust, that's the secret sauce of business.

Peter:  Absolutely. Yeah.

George:  Certainly in our game at least. Yep. Like you work with people that you know, like, and trust.

Peter:  Absolutely. And

George:  trust is the kicker.

Peter:  Yeah, absolutely. For me anyway. Yeah. Like for

George:  Empire, and the business we build, it all comes on the back of that.

Peter:  100%. You're fortunate as the people you meet as you progress in any industry, and Dane Atherton was a guy that was really critical to the start of my journey, and one of the first things he said to me was, this whole auctioneering thing, it's a relationships game. Yeah. You know, you have to build relationships with [00:11:00] people. Not artificially, but you have to build proper relationships with people, and they will appoint you. They will work with you, and I've never, ever forgotten that.

George:  And for those listeners out there that may not be local, Dane Atherton runs a huge business on the Gold Coast, called Coastal. Yeah. And he's best in class at what he does. Yeah. Yeah. He's a once

Peter:  in a generation real estate guy and, I'm fortunate to have had that relationship with him from the beginning as well.

George:  Yeah. Very cool.

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  Mate, how do you distinguish a good auction from a bad auction? You've seen all sorts of stuff over the years, right? Like if I'm asking- Yeah Peter Burgin, mate, how do I get a good auction, and maybe what's some stuff where an auction's not going to be so good?

Peter:  I guess maybe to simplify that, what would make a bad auction in my eyes? A bad auction would be an auction without preparation. The agent and the auctioneer have to have done the work They have to have done everything in their power that is humanly possible to try and get as many people through the open homes, [00:12:00] and as many people from those open homes, converting them into people who have an interest in the property. And that's what our sellers expect of us. So if you get to an auction that doesn't have anybody interested, I can accept that, because sometimes that's just the nature of the market, it's the nature of the property. But if it doesn't have anybody interested because we haven't done the work, that's, to me, that's where, we have failed.

George:  So there's a lot of work in the back end, to make sure

Peter:  an auction's successful. Oh, absolutely. And, and it's not just a matter of, you know, there's an old saying, "Sign up, feet up," in real estate- ... but you can't do that. I guess in some markets you are blessed where the market will do a lot of the heavy lifting for you, but, you know, you cannot rely on that, so you've got to do the work.

George:  Yep, yep. So preparation. So on the flip side then, an excellent auction is going to have good prep behind it.

Peter:  Absolutely. Yeah, you just get to the auction and you know the work's been done. Then you know the communication with the client has been first class. Communication with buyers has been absolutely at its best. Have they got all the information that they need so they can make an informed decision, or even an impulsive [00:13:00] decision if they've seen the property quite late? Sometimes people will just arrive at the auction on the day and go, "Oh, hang on." And we see more and more of that happening now, so we've got to have that information ready to go so people can make that impulsive decision.

George:  The dark horse, they call them, don't they? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You've had no comms and someone just rocks up, registers, and buys a place. Absolutely. And you're like, "What the heck?" Absolutely. Do a quick walk through like a minute before the auction and they buy it. Yeah. It's like- And you've seen that happen? Oh, heap- yeah. Wild. I can't tell you. Wild.

Peter:  There's people out there at the moment, Brisbane has grown as a city. There's a lot of wealth in our city and there's a lot of people who believe in the market, for the short, medium, and long term, and they will make impulsive decisions. They recognize good real estate. It doesn't take you long to work out what's a good property and what's not. And of course they just, they'll just buy it.

George:  Mate, I believe in the market. I saw the evolution of Camp Hill, Coorparoo. You look at Kangaroo Point and New Farm along the river, what's happened there. And I, I remember when I was, started working with the Caulfields- Yeah ... and you're seeing, you know, units go for- Yeah ... $6m+, [00:14:00] and people just can't believe it. And I, I- Yeah ... I pinch myself going, "Brisbane?" Like what? And that, for a unit.

Peter:  George, when I got into real estate, if you had $3 million to spend, you could have taken your pick. You could have bought anything that you wanted to in Brisbane. Riverfront- Something unreal ... whatever. Absolutely. Like there was- Yeah ... nothing that wasn't available to you. And, and now, like it's, I hate to say it, but it can be a bit underwhelming in certain parts of the market. If you want to live in a prime location, $3 million is like, I think you should feel like you've sort of earned the right to buy something really, really nice. But, you know, it's not. That, that's just the nature of a growing city.

George:  Yeah, correct So, yeah Correct. So those that were on that train early have done real well, and I think if you're new to the market, it's, it's quite challenging.

Peter:  Mate, you said these waters were how much? $3 each? Or can I, can I just, can I just have one on the

George:  house? Mate, it's on the house for you. Oh, yeah. Yeah Beautiful.

Peter:  Thank you. Thank you. Well,

George:  mate, I reckon that's a pretty good place to wrap up point one, you with your [00:15:00] $3

Peter:  water. Pay later. Oh, yeah. I didn't bring any money. I

George:  want to switch gears now into maybe misconceptions. we'll go, go a little bit deeper on what we were talking about before with, like, say, what makes a good auction or, or what makes a bad auction.

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  I want to do, like, a seller side and a buyer side, because again, you've seen, like, literally- Yeah ... thousands and thousands. You've, you've lived through this. Let's start with maybe your vendors- Yeah, yeah ... in terms of expectations and maybe where vendors have had the wrong expectations.

Peter:  Sure. Yeah, yeah Yeah, we just want to see where that goes. And that's always a hard one because like anybody who has sold a property before, there's always a seller's perspective on value, and it should be probably higher than the market. Because you've lived in a property, you have a different sense of its value, and there's probably some intrinsic value that isn't obvious to the rest of the market as well. And plus, naturally, you want to just make sure you get the best outcome you possibly can, so you can set yourself up for the next [00:16:00] purchase as well. We need to understand what the seller's expectation is, and then see where that marries up against, what we feel that the market will respond to in terms of value. You know, they're two different sources of information, but we need to understand what the vendor's expectation is, and then we need to look at historical data. We also need to look at what's on the market at the moment as well and go, "Okay, well, you know what? That actually makes sense." And I think- this is where sometimes things can become disjointed. The seller's expectation can have logic behind it, it can have foundation, but sometimes the agents don't use that as leverage for buyers to understand why value should sit in a certain range. And they almost leave it, to the buyer to suggest what value they think a property's worth. Yes. You know? And I think where they start can be very different to where we need them to end up.

George:  I'm with you. I'm with you. There's also [00:17:00] another element of, I guess, emotion, right? I just think back, I've sold one property using an auction agent. Yeah. And putting myself back in my shoes back then- Yeah ... I was probably an emotional seller that wanted more, wanted more. And I thought that's a common theme that you get is, "I think my property's amazing." Who would've thought? Who would've thought? Yeah. Yeah. And every vendor probably feels that way, don't they? And, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And they should.

Peter:  Yeah. It's, that's the way it should be.

George:  Yeah. You know? But it's applying that- Human

Peter:  nature.

George:  Yeah, true. But everyone thinks their property's awesome, but then it's up to you to, I wouldn't say bring them back down to earth, but it's more so just giving them good data, isn't it? Saying, "look, you think your house is worth this much." Yeah. "All the other houses in the area that are similar to yours are this much." Yeah, absolutely. How do we bridge that gap in terms of what makes yours $200K more than all the comparative ones on the street?

Peter:  And the one thing I like about auction is where you start with that conversation isn't necessarily where you finish. So if you said to a buyer, you know, "Where do you think the value of this property sits?" [00:18:00] And they gave you an indication, if there's a gap between seller expectation and that, well, that's also reasonable, because they're a buyer, they're looking at through it from a different perspective. They're not, at that point, probably not emotionally attached to the property. But that's just a process that you need to work through with that buyer. And, first and foremost, like you almost park the whole value conversation. Yes. Because it's more about getting them attached to the purchase of the property, and attached to buying the property.

George:  And then the emotion starts to come into it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

Peter:  then, so it's having the value conversation is, you know, the right conversation, but too many times we have it at the wrong time. It's at almost before we get that- Yeah, yeah ... connection. Well,

George:  mate, just tell me what, tell me how much money I need. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." Yeah. Of course. "What do you want to use the property for?" Of course. Yeah. And sort of help them see where, how this could be their property or- Yeah. "

Peter:  Let me assure you, Mr. and Mrs. Buyer, I will do as much as I can to assist you in terms of understanding the value of the property as we go through this process, but I really want you to feel sure that it is the right property for you, and I want you to come back and visit the property in the evening once you get a sense of..." Start growing that attachment with the buyer [00:19:00] so they do feel... And then the, the price conversation becomes almost secondary, you know? Like you've won the battle before you've even had it.

George:  It's funny you say that. I'm just reflecting on, I've, I've bought one property at auction as well. Yeah. And as a buyer-

Peter:  Yep ...

George:  oh, mate, I was emotionally invested in this property. Were you really? Oh, yeah. I want- I wanted that property.

Peter:  And you didn't want any other. You know, it

George:  was, it was north-facing. It was exactly- Yeah, yeah ... it was exactly where I wanted, and it was in- Yeah ... the price point that I thought I could stretch to and- Yeah. Yep ... yeah, it's funny. And y- you're right, once I sort of dreamed of being in that property-

Peter:  Yeah ...

George:  you're like, "Oh, can I find another 50K? Can I find- Yeah, yeah ... another 100K?" Yep. You know, "Can Mum and Dad help me? Can I borrow some money?" You know, you sort of just- Yes ... y- once you're, once you're invested and you want it- Yeah it's crazy, isn't

Peter:  it? You feel really

George:  differently

Peter:  about it. Absolutely, and buyers want to have the value conversation on day one, and sometimes agents respond, and it's hard. Buyers can make it difficult for you, but you've got to resist the temptation. Yeah. Have that conversation, but have it at the right time. Just assure the buyer that you do want to help them through that [00:20:00] process. You'll do everything you can to help them understand value. The more information you gather about value through the campaign, you're happy to share that with them, but, we want you to make sure it's the right property for you.

Hey guys, just interrupting the show just for a quick second. We're trying to get some more reviews, so whatever platform you're listening on, if you can please give us a review, that'd help us find more people. Okay, back to the show.

George:  What I love about what you're talking about, Pete, is the transparency piece as well. Yeah. And maybe this feeds into just closing this part out, but you are saying, "I will give you the data. I'll give you the information." Yeah. "I'll make sure it's the right property for you." All of the language you're using- Yeah is the exact kind of person that we want in this chair and that we want out in the market- Yeah ... versus, the slimy ones that are saying whatever they have to say- Yeah, yeah ... to sell a property. Less of that and more of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's just an organic theme that's coming through because...

Peter:  yeah

George:  if you always put your best foot forward with transparent, trust, all that stuff-

Peter:  Yeah ... it,

George:  that's how you succeed, isn't it?

Peter:  And buyers will give you more. An open line [00:21:00] of communication. If you can develop a, I guess, rapport initially, and then rapport can become trust. And just remember with trust, isn't something you're giving them. No. That's something that they will give to you at the right time, but you've got to earn it. Got to earn it. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you've got to go through that process with them, and if you do it methodically, people will tell you everything, and you'll convert that relationship from almost an abrasive sort of competitive one to a, actually I now want you just to help me purchase this home."

George:  Yeah.

Peter:  And- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like- From a point of negotiation, your client wants you in a position where you have that trust with the purchaser, so when you do ask them for that extra $100,000, you're a better chance of getting it because there is a relationship there.

George:  This is a perfect segue because I wanted to ask you, if you could boil it down to, say, on the sale side, what is- a mistake that you see commonly made in the auction process, and then on the [00:22:00] buyer's side, what is a mistake you commonly see. Is there any in either of those scenarios that sort of bubble to the top that you go, "Oh, mate, if only buyers just were more honest with me, I could help them be get..." Like that sort of stuff? Yeah,

Peter:  yeah.

George:  Because I imagine they wouldn't- every buyer I know in those situations doesn't want to tell you their budget because then they're going to overpay. No. And you know what? We've made it too hard for them over the years. I mean, if you surveyed 100% of the buying market and said, "How much do you want to share with a real estate agent?"

Peter:  It'd be, not many would be wanting to share very much at all. The market has evolved over the years, and I think as real estate agents, it's our role to evolve as well.

George:  Yes.

Peter:  Become more sophisticated in the conversations we're having with people, try and make people feel more comfortable, that we are trying to help them. But I think we've still got a fair way to go. We've made it too hard for people. There's too many different methods of sale. I think people understand auction. It's a process that's been around for thou- literally thousands of years. Oh. Well before you or I were sitting here- ... as old as we may look, but, you know- [00:23:00] but people do understand the process, and they understand that there's not a price on the property, and they understand that the seller and the agent have probably made a decision to auction the property, because they want the market to help them understand what, what the realisable value will be. But also then we've got, for sale with a price, for sale without a price. We've got price ranges - we've got offers over, we've got, top offers, price by negotiation. It's like, if you're a buyer out there, and I don't know if anyone has recently tried to purchase a property, you would rather slam your head in a car door than go through the process that we offer, offer people, and we've just got to get better. We've got to try and give people more information, help them understand value. Nothing more frustrating than scrolling through realestate.com. I'm simple, I just think it probably should either go to auction or it should have a price on it. I just I know there's a lot of people that'll probably just go, "You're an idiot," and that is a simplistic way of saying it, but really- Nah you know what? Let's make it easier for people.

George:  Mate, y- like- Let's- Just to give you the thoughts running through my head right now- Yeah, yeah ... I look [00:24:00] back at the last time we tried to buy- Yeah ... and I'd like to consider myself probably semi-sophisticated, let's call it, in terms of- Yeah ... I live and breathe this stuff. Yeah. Like, I'm on realestate.com every day. We work with hundreds of agents. Yeah. I'm property mad. You know, like this is, I live and breathe this stuff. Yeah,

Peter:  yeah, yeah.

George:  Mate, it is such a punish. Yeah. I was getting so sick. I, I knew the pocket we wanted. I was looking, I was looking, I was looking and-

Peter:  Yeah

George:  every time I press that red dot on realestate.com, there's no price.

Peter:  No.

George:  And I'm like, "Man." Then I, I'm tapping through 50 dots-

Peter:  Yeah ...

George:  and it's like contact agent, contact agent. Yeah. And I'm like, "Man, this is so frustrating." Yeah. So frustrating. And to your point- Yeah ... such a simplistic solution. Wouldn't it be great if there was like a ... even if the vendor's head's in the clouds, put a price on it and you can... you can negotiate from

Peter:  there. Yeah, and if you've got an understanding, if the price is wrong and no one's coming through the home at least that's a conversation you can have with your client to say, "You know what? I don't think we've got this right. We're not aligned. We might need to make an adjustment." But [00:25:00] auction exists because it is a good process. It's a neat process. I know it's had its, I guess it's had its challenges over the years because it's probably been misused a little bit. But in simple, it's a very easy process for a purchaser and also a seller, and for the agent as well. People try and complicate it, make it up, but I would rather go to an auction as a buyer than go into a multiple offer situation where the agent's saying to you that, "I've got other people who are interested. You need to sign a document that says there's a multiple offer and you give me your best offer. By the way, I'm not going to tell you what the next best offer is." Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't, I just, I get that how that might make an agent or a seller feel like you got the best price, but there's no way. If you put me in a multiple offer situation, I'm never going to put my best foot forward. Human nature will not let me do that.

George:  Because you overpay, right? Yeah. And you think, "Oh- And I would rather miss a property ... I'll throw 100K on top." It's like- Or- ... man, that's a lot of money you're throwing on top. Yeah. And I'd

Peter:  rather miss a property than feel like I overpaid. Yeah. That's just, look, that's my opinion. I, [00:26:00] but I think the multiple offer thing is torture for buyers. We have to stop it. As an industry, we have to find a better way because only, the winner is, I guess, the seller sells the property, the person who purchases the property wins or feels like they've won, even though they probably hated the process as well. But you know what? The people that missed out, it just leaves people disgruntled, and that's why we've got a broken relationship with the buying market.

George:  On the back of that, my mate's in-laws were relocating from Brisbane down to the Gold Coast. Yep. And he's a mortgage broker, I'm a property lawyer. Every Saturday, mate, all around the Helensvale area, looking, looking, looking, looking, looking. It's beautiful water by the way. Yeah. Thanks, mate. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. We go out to the springs out in the mountains- Yeah, oh, oh, mate, I can imagine. Sorry, mate. Thanks for appreciating that. Yeah. It was just getting to become a joke where every Saturday- Yeah ... I'm like, "Hey, you g- you guys find anything?" "Nah, nothing, nothing, nothing." Yeah. You think, "Man." They hadn't sold and bought in 30 [00:27:00] years. Yeah. You know? It was, this is their, like, retirement home. And it was such a challenging experience for them. You think, "Man." And I remember talking to the husband, and he's like, "Man, I'm not doing that again."

Peter:  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

George:  And you think, whoa, that, that's, that sort of sucks. Like Yeah.

Peter:  That's right. But the market changes over time as well, and we've seen that happen in a number of different incarnations. Your processes can sometimes look and feel different depending on what sort of market you're in. Yeah. If you're in a really prosperous market, there's a lot of buyer activity, you don't have to look very far back, only a matter of months ago, where it was very competitive to purchase properties. There's been a slight change to that, but the market's still great. But you know what, it was hard to determine what a property would sell for. It was really hard to guide people in that space. Auction was fantastic because people would compete, and they love competing where they can see where the nearest competitor is at. But where you have a change in market and maybe there's less buyers, we still want to use p- the process of auction because the buyer has confidence in it. You can [00:28:00] certainly understand firsthand what the volume of activity for the property is like for the market. If it's great, fantastic, you might have a competitive auction. But sometimes these auctions might have one or two buyers and it becomes more of a negotiation. But from the seller's point of view, the job's done, and from the buyer's point of view, is that they went through a process that they understood, where they had a high level of communication and transparency as well.

George:  Is it fair to say, and I believe this, just keen to hear your thoughts, the true test of the market value of a property should be what happens at the auction?

Peter:  To a point.

George:  But- Does it depend on the market?

Peter:  We've got examples of properties at the moment that are going to auction, and people are saying to us exactly that on the day. But you know what? We've got one, two, or three people sometimes who might not have been in a position to meet auction terms that genuinely want to purchase the home, that have been talking numbers higher than what's been on offer on the day. This is the magic. This- So- This

George:  is the magic right now. Yeah. So, so- Yeah. Cool. [00:29:00] This is where you come in as an expert, to...

Peter:  yeah. So this is where- Yeah ... you, you know, you, the buyer at the auction who has registered a bid and is like, "Well, where is everyone else? Here's the market. Seller's got to accept it." And you're like it's not that simple."

George:  Like, mate, you know

Peter:  He's a, he's a part of the market. He's the cash market, but our reality is, is we've got people who are going to, do a lot more to get this property than what you are. So in that

George:  instance you'd say to your vendor like, "Mate, let's just pass this in." 100%. "I know we've got three or four in the wings- 100%, yeah ... they might need to sell their place or have a finance clause or whatever it might be- Yeah, 100% ... and we can get you more coin." Yeah. So yeah, you're right, it's not always a true- No, it's not a true reflection ... reflection of the cash market it might be. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good-

Peter:  Like in that post-co- post-COVID market, it was like, yeah, that was where you would very comfortably be able to assess market value for property on auction day, because there was enough competition to find that number. But, it's a matter of adjusting as agents when the market changes, recognizing when there is a shift in the market, and also acknowledging that every property [00:30:00] experiences the market a bit differently. There's some properties still, like we had plenty of auctions on the weekend where we had anywhere between five and, I think the most we had was 15 registered bidders on a property. Then there's ones where we've got one. Yeah. Everyone's experience in the market is different. The market's specific to the property. If you don't have a high volume of interest in the property, well, then you know that if someone wants to make an offer before the auction, it probably makes sense to take it.

George:  And that's all, that's all experience, isn't it? After- Yeah, yeah doing this so many times, you can counsel your vendor, and go, "Mate, this is pretty good." Yeah, absolutely. "Like, we have been through, I've seen all this before and, I reckon there's prob- that's probably a goer." Yeah.

Peter:  Yeah. And it's one of the conversations we now have on almost day one, is start thinking about what you would do if someone made you an offer to purchase the property in the next couple of days. I'm not saying that will happen, but you want your vendor to start thinking about value early. Because if that right offer comes in and they're not expecting to be [00:31:00] mentally making a decision for another three or four weeks, then you're putting them in a very difficult situation, and that's not what we should be doing. Yes.

George:  Yes.

Peter:  We want to start promoting thinking around value, where they would and wouldn't sell the property very early in the campaign, just in case that is the decision that they need to make.

George:  Yeah. And that just comes back down to that trust piece, doesn't it? Instead of blindsiding them- Oh, yeah ... at the 11th hour, it's like, "Hey, we've been, we've been talking about this for weeks." Yeah. Like, this is where the market's at, this is where it's at. Yeah. Helping Them navigate through it, in a manner where they feel comfortable.

Peter:  Yeah. Yeah. And it's a collaborative thing. The agent and vendor experience and relationship is a collaboration. You are both trying to solve the same problem together, and you need to work together. If you've got a relationship with your vendor which is combative, it's competitive, if you feel like there's a low level of trust, if you feel like you're putting them through some, factory-type production line process, then they may make a decision to sell the property, [00:32:00] but they won't have enjoyed the experience. And I think your chances of retaining a long-term relationship with those people is pretty low. And I think we've got to look, if you want to be in this industry for a long period of time, you want to make sure that you've got clients for life,

George:  Mate, that translates not only in your world, it also translates perfectly on our side of the fence too. Yeah, yeah. We've got repeat clients from eight years ago that just come back, because they trust us and they know we'll do a good job. Yeah. Versus your conveyor belt model where it's, like, very transactional. You don't even know the name of the person, because there's not one, there's, like, eight different people. You never get a file handler, for continuity.

Peter:  And, and it's, and not as an advertorial, particularly when you were charging me $3 for your water, but- No, it's free. It's free ... but I I refer- ... 100% to, either personally I will use you myself, or, uh, or 100% of the people that I engage, I will use you. But because I know there's a high quality of service and they or I can pick up the phone at any time, and that is what is missing. Cheap conveyancing is you get what you pay for. Oh. You s- [00:33:00] and you s- Mate, I wish more people...

George:  You've lived through it, right? You've seen it. You've seen the disasters.

Peter:  And I can't think of a time where I haven't had to pick up the phone in that process. I don't want to go on about that because it does feel a bit sort of advertorial, but yeah, I can't think of- Well, let's spend a minute

George:  on it because it, it is part of raising the bar. Yeah. And this is my passion point, is that this is the, this is the pain that our team feels on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah. And I guess to an extent you'd feel it on your side.

Peter:  I just think you've got to surround yourself now in real estate with high quality you know, professionals, who will help you problem solve. And again, they are a part of the team that you bring to your client's experience. And gee, if you need your conveyancer, your solicitor, it's nice to know you can pick up the phone. Yeah. And get the help. And I've picked up the phone... I shouldn't say this because people will be ringing you all hours of the night. But- ... I have picked the hel- up the phone out of hours too, and I have a, only when I've had to, but a, had a response. But because you know what? At that time where you feel like you've got a mini crisis on your hands, [00:34:00] to my seller, that's their whole world. That is the most important thing that is happening in their life at the moment, and we need to get them some advice or an understanding of what the real situation is. So, you know, and it's the same with photography and the marketing you use, like we just need to...your team that

George:  you've assembled. 100%. Yeah. And isn't that more important than getting 50 bucks or 100 bucks as a kickback? Like surely, it's just- ... this is my whole conversation I have, like, yes you've earnt the ability through building a relationship with us to go... you're sitting with your vendor and go, "Look, I'm just going to call Empire real quick and just make sure we're all... you know, I just want to clarify this." Yeah. That's the relationship. Yeah. It's not a transactional thing going, "Oh, I get $100 every deal." It- it's, that's not important.

Peter:  And I just, I don't want to make myself unpopular or, or- But you, you're just looking for money in the wrong places if, if that's what you're trying to do. And, we spend our lives trying to put forward a good fee model in this business that works for everybody and that we feel [00:35:00] is fair, but we've got to offer people value. And if we're trying to do that and also trying to pick up $50... it's like it's just, no, that's not good. Just put forward a good fee proposition to your client, and with that, you will bring your team, and your team involves these people that, will help them. And yeah, you don't need them in any meaningful way. Hopefully, it is a fairly process-driven experience, but if you do, you've got to have the right people in.

George:  Mate, it's just short-sighted. I think those people- ... they probably, maybe they don't have the experience or maybe they have a different value alignment. Because at the end of the day, it's a reflection on Peter Burgin, it's a reflection on Ray White Group, it's a reflection when you refer someone, be it me, your building and pest guy, your broker, whoever, the floor plan guy, that all reflects on you because these people are trusting you.

Peter:  Absolutely.

George:  And you know, like I don't have to explain it to you. You've lived and breathed it for- Yeah, yeah ... a lot longer than I've been a professional in the industry. Yeah. The way I look at it, that's how it all boils down. It's I'm- Yeah, yeah ... not going to refer anyone [00:36:00] if I don't think I wouldn't send my own mother there, you know? Like- No, that's right. Like- And it's not for the $50. It's because- No ... I don't want a thing, except for my mum or whoever the person I'm referring to have an amazing experience with those people.

Peter:  Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. It's just- Yeah ... you got to have confidence in it.

George:  Yeah, because it reflects on you at the end of the day. Absolutely. And you don't want those people coming back to you going, "Pete, George was a rat bag." Yeah. "He never picked up the phone. He never responded to my emails. He ripped me off." Like-

Peter:  Yeah, yeah ... like,

George:  like come on. Like there's that-

Peter:  Yeah, that's right. So it's just- That's a different George, by the way. No, no, no. That's right.

George:  Yeah. Oh, mate, him, he's- Yeah, he's a bastard. But yeah. Mate that's, let's wrap up that point there because I could talk all day about my feelings. Yeah, okay. Yeah. But to the listeners out there, I think, it's okay to ask a few more questions, let's just, just to put a bow on this point, isn't it? If your conveyancer's been referred by someone, you should really know all you're building in Pesclo or whoever the professional is, are you getting paid for that introduction? Because if you are, that's a big red flag to me to the trust piece, if it's not disclosed upfront. We [00:37:00] don't give or receive kickbacks. That's my biggest passion point in this industry and in our brand at Empire, is that we proudly don't. No. And that we are referred. Like you choose us because we do look after your clients. We do a good job.

Peter:  Yeah, absolutely. And that's the, that's the thing, and that just goes for everything. And I think when you go to a listing presentation and you present yourself in front of a client, I think it's all important pieces of your overall service proposition, is that you talk about what you do specifically. If you work for a brand, I work for Ray White, it's easy for me to sell the benefits of Ray White and the national, international thing then. But then also locally, what do you do for your client? What is it that you bring them that other agents might not? I'm happy to recommend that this is the conveyancing firm that I will use personally. I'll recommend them to all my family members, and I'll recommend them to all my clients. The reason I do that is because if there is ever an issue, I can pick up the phone. The photographer, the stylist. And just let people know that you have a very well-rounded service proposition of people who [00:38:00] absolutely are all working hard to bring you the best value so you can get the best outcome.

George:  Yes. And that's

Peter:  how you help substantiate your fee. It's not just by saying, "Hey, I'm Peter Burgin, and I'm going to flip out me A-frame and," you know, and, and stand there and people will just want to pay you a great price. No. It's, there's more than that. Yeah. And if you're looking for a difference at the listing table, you need to have a bigger conversation, I think, around what it is that you do that is different.

George:  Yeah. And to me that just screams sophisticated operator. I've got all my people, I've got a winning team, I've done this- Yeah ... tens of thousands of times. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Like And you you look the part, right? Because you are the part because you've lived through it.

Peter:  Yeah, yeah- Yeah ... yeah. Hopefully.

George:  Yeah. Mate, let's go to the last point. Okay. I've got head of performance and what's next for Queensland Auctions. So you're now chief auctioneer and head of performance at Ray White Collective. That role sounds pretty serious. Oh, geez. What does head of performance look like day-to-day? Let's talk about that. Like, what are you, what's- Yeah ... Peter Burgin do [00:39:00] within the group?

Peter:  So what does Peter Burgin do? In terms of the auction experience throughout the collective and also for Ray White at a corporate level as well, then obviously I bring a lot of experience to the table in that regard. We work really, really hard, and I'm very fortunate I work with probably the best auctioneer or one of the best auctioneers in the country, Haesley Cush, as well. And I even had some people say to me, "You know, well, isn't Haisley the auctioneer?" Well, we didn't look at it like that. We just thought the power of both of us being in that space was going to bring so much more to our people than it just being one of us or one or the other. So, and it certainly worked out that way as well. We can cover more territory, be a part of more deals and so forth. So the auction side of it, but that's almost a part-time job now, you know? Like auction training. And I can tell you now, we've worked so hard at upskilling our people in that space. We've got some of the youngest and brightest people in the industry- ... that are so competent. [00:40:00] And one of my jobs is that if Haesley's calling in rooms, as I'll work the floor alongside Matt Lancashire and some of our other principals. We go to help the agent through the negotiation, and they're almost pushing us away now saying, "No, no. I got it, I got it." Whoa. And nothing gives you more satisfaction than seeing them just go and absolutely do a stellar job and just show a level of confidence beyond their years and years of experience. That translates into the performance side. So it's not,

George:  it's not just auctions. You're coaching the agents in the business, in the Ray White Collective group on, is it auction specific or...?

Peter:  We have a strong auction focus, but that's a part of the elevation of performance for our people in the business. So making sure that they can handle any situation. They don't need Peter Burgin, Haesley Cush, Matt Lancashire or anybody else. That they can go and be a part of a conversation with anybody in [00:41:00] the market, whether they're a high court judge or a, a retiree or it doesn't matter. First home buyer, whatever ... yeah. It's absolutely, they're adaptable. So that gives me great pleasure. So there's the auction side of that, there's the daily agent side of that, where we help them formulate a plan as to how they can become a bigger part of their market, a more meaningful part of their market, where they can start building their own personal brand within, and using the Ray White and the Collective brand as well talking about the value that they bring. And, what we're seeing is that some very young people, or people that haven't been in the industry for very long, really doing some amazing things and it's... I just love seeing the future of our business. And you change as you go. Like, there's this part of your working life where you sort of almost get a bit territorial and it's like, "Oh, no one..." But like now, I'm j- I'm just so into- growth of people.

George:  Satisfying, hey? Oh, it's unbelievable The job satisfaction. Instead of it's "Peter Burgin's the man", it's like, you know what? Yeah. I've just trained 20 of them, [00:42:00] and they're all the man. It feels good, hey?

Peter:  And I'm fortunate. There's just so much expertise within that group, from the principals right across the group and also between Matt and Haesley as well, and it's just, it's like nothing I've experienced. And to be a part of that is really, really gratifying as well. And, so that's, I guess the performance side of it, and that's my full-time job. Yes. If I was to say that, probably to give you a representation is that, you know, I will spend more time in that space. But the good thing is, is that the auction part is a part of that as well. And it's a part of that relationship with your client, and it goes back to the fact that they go and list at auction, I might be a part of that listing presentation with them to help them get the business. And also help them list the auction. And reassuring the client that not only do they get the agent who is the front person for their listing, but I'm a resource that's available to them right through the campaign as well.

George:  Yes. Yes. And,

Peter:  you know, again, it's just offering more people. We talk about that conversation at the listing table with what do you bring that others may not. [00:43:00] It's nice for them to be able to say that there's people behind the process that will help get their client a better outcome. And that's all we care about. How do we get the client the best result we possibly can? And let's really test ourselves, let's... and probably don't want to go off topic, but, look, I think we rely, over the years we've relied too heavily on the client's marketing dollar to get buyers through their properties.

George:  This is an interesting angle. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And doesn't that also cause... What's the word I'm looking for? That's also, like, an issue, not, a, a, an objection that has to be overcome a lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've been speaking to agents recently. Obviously the market's turned a little bit now. Yeah. We're recording, what, middle of May in 2026, and it's gone from being really hot to, like, clearance rates have dropped a fair bit in the last two, three weeks.

Peter:  Yep.

George:  And it's a bit more challenging. Things aren't moving as fast.

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  And from, from what I've seen, I [00:44:00] mean, you're boots on the ground, and these agents are telling me, like, "Mate, people don't want to spend money on marketing up front. They don't want to do it." They're like, "You bring me an offer." It's like, "Well, how can I bring you an offer if I can't market?" And it's like this... what do we do?

Peter:  Absolutely. Absolutely. I Think that sometimes sellers lose confidence in marketing when they do see the market change a little bit- And unless the agent is strong in their message or can give them examples of where the marketing has brought enormous value to the process as well, because... It's funny, because what happens is, is that we can probably all bring buyers. And I guess at Ray White we've got Nurture Cloud and we've got a strong collaboration without getting into all that stuff. We do feel like we've got the best source of buyers in the industry. Those buyers independently will get you so far. But if you can put them in competition with buyers that might come off the real estate, that's where you just know from a client's point of view is that if you do both, you're just reassuring yourself that you're [00:45:00] going to get the best outcome.

George:  The right eyeballs. Yeah. There'll be more eyeballs on it and then, yeah. As opposed just to

Peter:  relying on one of those. If you don't have some of the resources that we've got, if you just use the client's marketing dollar in itself, without doing the work to try and get buyers through, then you know...

George:  comes back to your point before. You've got to do

Peter:  the

George:  work.

Peter:  You- 100%. It doesn't matter what

George:  car you're rolling in in or what suit you're wearing, you've still got to do the work.

Peter:  And we've got to get more people through properties too. And our clients expect this of us, I think that they have probably let us off the hook over the years, but they expect us to, I guess add more value to the process in terms of buyer intelligence than what we probably have over the years. So, and the other thing that's part of the, you talk about raising the bar, like what can we do more of and, and do better is, is that bring more buyers to the table and use them in conjunction with the ones that are coming off the major portals, then that's how we give the client ultimate value.

George:  And that's ultimately your job in the whole- It's our job ... in this [00:46:00] whole piece of this property journey. Yeah. That's your primary role, isn't it? 100%. Yeah. It's getting more eyes on it- 100% ... and then getting the best outcome for your client.

Peter:  Yeah, 100%.

George:  Yeah. Yep. Mate, on that note we're nearly there. Yeah, okay. Got two more quick things for you.

Peter:  Yep.

George:  One is a question I started asking recently. It's what does raising the bar mean to you? Mate, you've been in the industry a long time. You've helped a lot of people. Look,

Peter:  I think it's just an evolution of, I think the market needs to- we need to take ourselves seriously. And it's not to say that we haven't, but I think we just need to understand what it is that we do and where we fit in and what value we can bring. For me, raising the bar is always trying to become a better person. It's always trying to work harder or trying to offer people more value, and bring more to the table and, you almost want to be able to lie in [00:47:00] bed at night and go, you know, what have I been good value and, and easy to deal with and trustworthy and all those sorts of things. I just think we just got to keep evolving in this space and embracing technology and not dismissing. And I think sometimes we get too dismissive of something because people will be dismissive of auction because they've never really auctioned before, or people will be dismissive of a for sale with a price or without a price because they haven't really done it, and it's just like...they're in that camp. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, don't... No, no, no. Don't have preconceived ideas about what does and doesn't work, and none of us should. Well, if auctions stopped working tomorrow, and, and we know they're not going to. But look, if they stopped working tomorrow- If you're listening, we just knocked on wood, by the way. I would have to accept, I would have to accept that I needed to change the way I thought about auctions. Yes. And I would. And you would adapt. So we just need to keep adapting no matter what the market throws at us. I don't think we need to get too worried about all of the things that are [00:48:00] happening globally, and we need to acknowledge that all that stuff exists. We need to understand what it means for our clients specifically. I think we also just need to become better people who are better at their jobs and look at all this whole technology thing that's coming into our world. And it's harder for a bloke like me, because I look at technology and sometimes you almost think it's too hard. But I'm very fortunate where I work alongside some really smart people who are handling the process or getting an understanding of what is actually going to bring real value to people. Not smoke and mirrors. And they're going through that process. They will deliver to our agents something that is easy to use, that offers our clients value, and I guess we've just got to keep embracing that stuff.

George:  Yeah, like AI for example, right? Yeah, yeah. It's continual evolution.

Peter:  Yeah. Yeah. And the

George:  theme I'm hearing from you with your what does raising the bar mean, it sounds like two things, continual evolution and improvement. Yeah. And the second piece that is resonating with me, what you said, is hanging your hat on the hook at the end of [00:49:00] the day and going, "I'm doing good work." Yeah. Yeah. You sleep well at night.

Peter:  Well, absolutely. And don't ever feel that you're entitled to anything. Like, time in the market means nothing. You're only as good as your next transaction. There's all var- variations of that saying. I

George:  say we're only as good as our last deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if we've been looking after Peter Burgin, we've been looking after Ray White Collective for years, and all of a sudden, we start being hopeless... You can't rest on your laurels, that's the term, I believe. Yeah. And you know- And- ... okay, that's not going to be enough if- Yeah if your deals start falling over, mate. You'll be like, "George, what the heck?" Absolutely.

Peter:  And I think we've just got to get better at communicating with people, sharing what it is that people need to know so they can make more informed decisions when they're selling their property. It doesn't need to be a combative relationship. Sometimes it's not what they want to hear, but you need to be able to deliver that in a way where you've got credibility, you've got information that supports what you're saying, not just a, "I'm sending a feedback report" and not wait for them to ring me and blow up. No, no. You got to go and front foot it. Go and talk to them. Treat them like humans, [00:50:00] and help them understand where the value of their property sits. The most common used words I use with my clients is, is that, "I will support whatever decision you want to make, but I need to be able to share some information with you which might not necessarily make you, happy." And it's information we didn't have on day one, but we've now got. And you know what? Most people get it. And I will support whatever decision they want to make. They sit there and tell me that they won't accept the market value and they're going to stay in the property for three years, I don't want to do that. I don't want to, I don't want to push people into doing anything.

George:  Mate, relationship, trust. Yeah. That theme's come up again, and I, I've spoken about this on past episodes. When my auction was being called, the one I was selling, Kos Komino from LJ Hooker Sunnybank Hills did it for me. Yeah. And he sat me down, and he said, "Georgie, if you're not happy with this result, do not sell the house."

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  And I'm like, I was like, "But then he won't get paid." And he goes, "I know. I won't get paid. That's okay." Yeah. He goes, "If you are not happy, we can negotiate after. There's lots of other options. There's different [00:51:00] campaigns." All that commission breath, it was never a thing with him. No. And, and the the amount of trust- man, I just think Kos is the man. Yeah. Because I never once felt like he just wanted my money. Yeah. He didn't. He was like, "Mate, I want to do

Peter:  what's best for

George:  George Sourris in this situation."

Peter:  Yeah. And I think it's funny. Like it's, for people who are in this business who have that approach, I just feel like the money always come. The financial reward will be there and, go out there and just treat people well, and they'll get it. They'll understand. They'll very quickly work out that you have their interests at heart. You'll become someone that they want to deal with, and I think that's all we can all do is just become easy to deal with. Wouldn't

George:  that be nice, mate? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've had a lot of, I don't know if it's been since seller's disclosure or just, I don't know, the weather, but people have been a bit mad lately, and we think people have been irrationally, like, upset and wanting things faster. And we sit down as a group and go "what's going on?" Because we're always trying to do the very best we can, and we always set realistic expectations.

Peter:  Yeah.

George:  And, yeah, it's been a bit of a challenge, but I guess that's what these [00:52:00] conversations are for, right? Yeah. To try and spread awareness that doing better as an industry.

Peter:  Yeah. That's right. But again, it's having good relationships with the people that you work with. If you're doing seller's disclosure notices for people, I guess if they're people you've got a long-standing working relationship, they'll understand if there's a challenge at your end, and you'll understand if there's a challenge at their end, and like it works, like you're not- It's funny you say that. It's the

George:  ones that we've worked with for years that trust us, that refer their clients to us, they don't have a problem. Yeah. It's funny you mention that. Yeah, yeah. It's always the ones that we've never even heard of them, and they're ringing up, blowing up, yelling, and it's like, man, whoa, whoa, whoa. We have everything transparently on the website, the pricing, the timeframes, the expectations. Like, let's just chill out a bit and work through it.

Peter:  And I think it's funny, like when that first, the seller's disclosure notice came out, it was sort of like everyone, there was different companies who that is their, that is what they are geared up to do. And it's a new process. They could not meet people's expectations. It was a challenging time for them. Yeah, and everyone's blowing up and, blaming the company, but it's actually the [00:53:00] process. We all inherited a process that was probably imperfect, probably still is imperfect, and I think we can all work together to try and help navigate our way through it. And if we all have the right voice around it, then I'm sure with, like through people like Antonia at the REIQ that they will help become a greater voice to help make the necessary changes that make it easier for everyone.

George:  To advocate for a better solution. Yeah. I just think, like, you know- ... from the real estate side and even our side Yeah, and mate, she's exceptional at what she does ... I think sometimes we've got to

Peter:  put the pistols back in the holster, and not try and shoot each other and just like, okay, right, what, you know- Let's

George:  collaborate and get a solution ... let's get ourselves

Peter:  through this and, and you know, and there's a few more things coming with AML, and geez, isn't that just a- Next month. Yeah, isn't that just a-

George:  Yeah, end of next month, mate. We've got not much time left ... re- remind you

Peter:  of how the industry has changed certainly, and we can all have stories of when I was a boy, but, like that's, again, the professional relationships are paramount here, so yeah.

George:  If you're a money launderer or a potential terrorist, so AML(CTF) is Anti Money Laundering, Counter Terrorism [00:54:00]Funding, you are on borrowed time, because as of the 1st of July 2026, agents will have to check, lawyers will have to check. We're doing stringent checks so that we report to AUSTRAC for any potential flags on money laundering. It's bringing Australia up to speed with the rest of the modern world. Yeah. We're a bit behind. So yeah, it's a necessary part of our job. It's going to make a bit more red tape, a bit more work, but if you're a good guy, nothing bad will happen. Just have to do an identity check and ask a few questions. Yep. And if you're a bad guy, watch out.

Peter:  Yep. You might want to- Go somewhere else ... quick- quickly buy or sell something, before

George:  it kicks

Peter:  in,

George:  so. Get, get out of Australia. Yeah. On that note, Pete, one more question and we're finished. Yes, sure. It's called the golden nugget. All right. Okay. Now, the golden nugget is- one piece of advice, that Peter Burgin wants to give to the world at large, the listeners. Oh. I know you've already given a lot of advice. You can have a sec to think. It doesn't even have to be auction or real estate related. It's just to the audience out there, [00:55:00] what's one golden nugget of advice, just to put a bow on this and put it to bed, that you'd like to give the people?

Peter:  Look, I think the one thing I would say is surround yourself with good people, people that you can trust people that add value to what you're doing, and therefore, ultimately adding value to what your client does. Think about the relationships, play the long game, and, and you'll be right. And just obviously work hard. But other than that, enjoy life as well. Don't burn yourself out and become a lunatic. Just- There's got to be- It's

George:  a hard balancing act, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Just

Peter:  try and get something out of life other than... Any- I feel like some old man who's trying to offer wisdom, but mate,

George:  you are a man. Let's not go with old. Yeah. You are a man offering decades of wisdom. A, a- yeah ... burnout's a real thing in our industry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not many agents and solicitors last a whole career. No, no, no. And yeah, mate, they, it's valuable words. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right. On that note- Mate ... mate, thank you very much. My pleasure. Thanks for your time. Appreciate you having me here. And yeah, maybe you'll be sitting in this chair in a couple of years and it's [00:56:00] a whole different world, who knows? Mate, thank you so much for your time.

Peter:  Okay. For the person who watches this, tell your friends.