Thomas Metos: the 5 star formula every small business should adopt

In episode 15 of Raising the Bar, George unpacks how Thomas Metos from Metos Electrical Contracting (MEC) shifted from wiring industrial sites (think Coca-Cola) to residential electrical, niched down into smoke alarms and built a reputation on relationships, and turned picking up the phone into a superpower ☎️

From a business degree to running MEC full-time, Thomas has become the go-to for smoke alarm compliance in Brisbane - and he’s backed by 300+ Google reviews with a 5-star average ⭐

We cover:

- Career & credibility: how a business grad became a residential electrician in Brisbane, the systems behind 300+ Google reviews (5 star average), relationship building that actually lasts, and practical cold-call tips that don’t feel gross 🤝

- Smoke alarms in QLD: current Queensland smoke alarm laws (photoelectric, interconnected, bedrooms/hallways/each level), what’s coming for owner-occupiers by 01 Jan 2027, compliance certificates for sales, typical lifespan and a rough budget guide🧯

- Work-life balance: the “health, wealth, relationships” framework, routines that keep you sharp and simple habits sole traders can copy to stay successful without burning out 💡

If you’re a Brisbane homeowner, sales agent or property professional, this is your playbook for Queensland smoke alarm compliance, residential electrical done right and reviews that compound over time 😎

Contact Thomas: https://www.facebook.com/p/Metos-Electrical-Contracting-100063083537467/

Follow us on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/empirelegal/ 

More podcast episodes: https://empirelegal.com.au/podcast/ 

Check out our blogs: https://blog.empirelegal.com.au 

Website: https://empirelegal.com.au

Transcript

Alright, Thomas Metos, welcome to season two of the Raising the Bar podcast. Thanks for coming on, mate. 

Thanks George for having me. Much appreciated. 

Mate, good to have you here.

We're going to learn a few things today about smoke alarms and your journey and a few other bits and pieces. Okay, fantastic. Fun fact guys. Thomas, we've known each other since teenagers. Yeah. And and even more fun fact is your mum introduced my parents, who are now married for over 40 years.

 Welcome to the Raising the Bar podcast, where we story tell excellence in Queensland Property. I'm your host, George Sourris from Empire Legal. 

Wow.

That's that's, that's a crazy fact. I didn't know that actually. So, yeah. 

Yep. In Fortitude Valley at the cinemas there. Oh, at the cinema. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I get that. And if it wasn't for that introduction I may not exist. 

Well, there you go. So thank you. That's thanks to you. No worries.

Yeah, no, that's okay. No worries. 

Alright mate, well we're here for raising the bar. So the whole point of our podcast is to story tell excellence in Queensland Property. Mate, you've been centered around property for many years of your career now. So let's just jump into it.

All right, so let's talk about your career. We're going to take a little trip down memory lane first. Okay. So, Thomas, today you're in charge of MEC - Metos Electrical Contractors. Yes. But as I understand it. You did a business degree at university. Then electrical game, working for big contractors, Coca-Cola. Let's just rewind a bit, mate and sort of go from there, to where you are today. 

Well, yeah, like I said, obviously we went to QUT together. George, I always thought I was going to end up in an office job, and then got approached by someone to do an electrical trade.

Industrial sort of setting. And after that time, found myself in the domestic sort of residential electrical. And then obviously over the last few years with all the legislation changes for smoke alarms, I found myself doing smoke alarms full time.

So hold on. Let's just rewind a bit.

Yeah. Your degree had nothing to do with, with electrical at all, did it? You did a business 

degree? No. No. So I actually went to university, finished a business management degree at QUT there. Very good memories there. We used to hang out there in Z Block.

Yeah. Yeah. Don't even know if it exists anymore, but that's where we were. So, probably should have ended up somewhere else, but yeah, once I finished university was just sort of looking for work and then had a colleague approach me and said would you like opportunity in electrical?

I said, yep, absolutely. Let's give it a go. Had no idea even how to pick up a screwdriver at that stage. Are we talking like a, a proper electrical apprenticeship? Yeah. Is that what you did through that business? 

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. In manufacturing, obviously at the Coca-Cola factory, so I learned a lot about, you know, industrial factories and manufacturing of products and things like that. And then I finished my apprenticeship. At this stage I've finished university for you know, a few years then I've gone and done four years as an electrical apprentice come out into the workforce.

At the time I thought there'd be something else I could get into. Once a contract would finish, you'd look for the next job. And I sort of got sick of that. And I got approached by someone that said, would you like to work for yourself?

Like do it for yourself, sort of thing. And I took it with two hands and went from there. And we ended up getting on, and that person actually ended up getting me a fair bit of contracting work. And then from that moment, obviously friends and family and your network sort of grows and.

As that happened, I moved into residential electrical. 

Before that point, you were mainly in the commercial space, like big factory work, all those contracts like bigger businesses, big bigger businesses, it wasn't mum and dad. You weren't fixing like smoke alarms, or electrical work in houses or anything like that?

Yeah, not at all. Not at all. 

Okay. 

And then, yeah, had some colleagues that were in the domestic game. And then introduced me to that. From there, real estate maintenance work was the next step. And then I specialised in that for a few years. How long ago was that, you reckon?

Roughly? At least five years. 

More than five years, yeah. Yeah. And then once the smoke alarm laws were introduced for rental properties at the beginning of 2022. So, I would say 2021. That whole year while I was getting a lot of phone calls from rental property managers and sales agents.

Asking me for, hey, can you do this? Peak COVID times. Yeah. Okay. Just, just after COVID. Yeah. Well actually through COVID too. A lot. Yeah. Yep. And then more of that started happening and then I've found myself specialising in getting people's properties smoke alarm compliant, and ready for either them to rent out or for sales agents to get ready to sell.

Yes. One of my particular questions is on smoke alarms. Yes. So we will dive into that a little bit deeper shortly. Yep. So question then, because we want to add value obviously to whoever's listening. Yes. Yeah. So say there's a, another sparky, tradie, anyone out there that's been working in a bigger company, or doing more commercial work. That transition when you pivoted to residential, if you think back to that point in time in your life.

Mate, was that scary? Obviously you saw opportunity, but it would've been a bit of a risk, right? You've gone from working for yourself, in the commercial space with probably guaranteed work coming along if your clients like Coca-Cola 

Yep. 

To doing, you know, Bob and Sally, smoke alarms or you know, fans or whatever it might be.

Absolutely. George. Absolutely. I've tried multiple different avenues, multiple times I've started from zero to go, okay, this, it's part of the game. Yeah, yeah. This this works, this doesn't work. I'll do this for a bit. I'll see how it goes. Do I like doing this? Is it profitable? Is it something that I can see myself continuing to do? Business relationship, getting new clients, things like that.

So you're growing this new brand. It's a relationship game in my opinion. I know at least on my side of, of the the property world. Yeah. My whole business has been built on relationships. 

Yeah, 

I know that's the same with you, right? We've spoken, we've caught up over the years. Yeah. And mate, the conversation always comes back to, it's usually our friends in real estate.

Yeah. They've heavily supported my business and from what I understand, same with you, right? 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And those relationships, they're not built overnight either. Obviously you have the initial contact with the person to try and provide them value, to see if you'll be a good fit with them.

They're sussing you out also to see if you'd be a good fit for their business. And then as you grow and do business together, you guys are constantly providing each other with value, whether that's in referrals or with professional advice. And then also, relationships grow when both people are growing together. Once one person is growing and the other person is not providing that value to that other person, you find that the relationship does come to an end. You'll have clients where they're going down one direction and they're not a right, the right fit for your business.

You might be going down a direction and decide, hey, look, I don't actually need that client anymore. Yes, I need to focus on. These clients because these are the people that are going in the same direction. They're growing with me. Okay. And then that also spills over into your personal life too. If you are building a relationship with your partner, obviously you have a lovely, a loving wife, you built a lovely relationship with. Say with my partner Tia too. And then those people also provide support for you too, and push you to be the best version of yourself. That's also with your business clients. It all ties back in, where you guys are all working to be the best versions of yourself.

And then once you get that, you guys can grow together. And then that's how a real professional and personal relationship is built solidly. 

Mate, a hundred percent. I, what's springing to mind for me is the saying I love, which is everybody has to win. Everybody wins. Yes, yes. So for example, it can't just be Empire Legal winning.

No, it has to be whoever's on the other side of that transaction, be it the real estate agent that referred us, or you doing your smoke alarms, whoever it is, there has to be mutual value there. The value doesn't necessarily have to be money.

It can be a service. For example, I know for us you know, real estate agents that trust our brand, I can't really give them business back. I mean, when you look at conveyancing and where we sit in the journey, we're right at the end. So it's hard for me to say, oh yeah, go to, you know, Joe Blow and sell your house.

It's way too late for us. But for us, the value is, we'll look after your clients, we'll communicate, we'll get the job done. And I guess to an extent, that's probably the same with you, right?

At the end of the day, you are servicing those clients, which is usually on behalf of the real estate agency, and you've just go to get the job done, communicate, be compliant so they can keep moving in their transaction.

Well, George, you'll, you'll know about this. Obviously you guys have fantastic reviews. What you want to do is you want to provide that value, do what you say you were going to do, do it properly. And at the end, that person should see what you've done and the value you've done and feel they've received, the value that they set out to achieve.

And then that person is going to turn around and then say, hey, I'm going to write you a fantastic review. I suppose that's how business is. Business is a transaction of value. Both parties need to come to a mutual agreement and both be happy and both shake hands and then leave, I suppose from that.

Well, mate, you, you took the next words out of my mouth. I've got two more points I want to talk about in this section. One is your Google reviews. So you've got over 300 Google reviews, five star average. Yep. And as I understand, you are doing the lion's share of the work, like it's Thomas that rocks up, it's Thomas that does the smoke alarms.

Yeah. Yeah mate, let's just expand on that for a minute or two. At some point you had zero reviews, and now you've got 300 with a five star average. Yeah. That's a testament to your hard work mate, so, congrats. That's, that's awesome. 

Thanks George. Well, yeah, all you have to really do is do exactly what you say you're going to do.

Rock up on time, do a good job, clean up after yourself. And that would be the same for you guys too. Stick to your deadlines. Do exactly what you say you are going to do, and then of course, to get a review, you need to ask for someone, hey, how get, get the feedback. It's not just a review, it's feedback.

You want to know you've done a good job. 

Yep. 

Hey, have I done a good job? Were you happy with everything? If you were so happy, could you write that down on a, you know, a profile online? And then you need to be able to do that job knowing that that person may not leave that review either. We've done thousands of jobs just to receive 300 five star reviews.

So knowing that too, that. I've go to do this 10 times in a row of really, really great job, to receive that one review. That's almost 

the formula, isn't it? That's the formula That's, you nailed it mate. Same with us. We do hundreds a month. Hundreds and hundreds of conveyances. Absolutely. Yeah. And we don't get hundreds of reviews.

No, we get a fraction of that. I'd say it's probably somewhere in the realm of 10%, so, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sort of does work out like that. And obviously as you grow it's probably harder because most people would see you guys just as a business say, oh, they don't need a review.

But at the end of the day, there's always a person on the other side of that email. On the other side from, in my case, you know, and you meeting them the tools. Yeah. I'd say arguably it'd be "stickier" for you because you're actually meeting them. You're building rapport. Yeah. We don't see the majority of our clients, they've got the option to come in here to the office.

Yeah. But most, most people are busy. They don't want to, it can all be done online. Whereas I guess you've probably got a unique opportunity in comparison to a business like ours, where you are meeting these people. You're being professional, you're being polite, you're getting the job done, like you said. I think it comes down to, are you happy?

And if you've done the job you set out to do, why wouldn't they be happy? And you, you've got to ask the question. I think asking is half the battle, isn't it? Compared to your competitors? They probably just don't ask. 

You have to ask, you have to follow up. Like anything really, people aren't just going to do it. No. People are busy man. If it's not in front of their face, and it's simple and it's easy, like a text with a link or something, man, people, they might have the best intentions, but life's busy. 

Well, we have four touchpoints. I ask them, I leave a review card, I leave a link, an email, and then I text them to, yeah.

I've asked for, I suppose thousands x4, just to have 300 of them. But let's dive a little bit deeper into that.

I remember I had this weird imposter syndrome, Abi and I, when we first started out.

Yeah. We knew we had to ask for reviews, but we'd ask just once in an email, after the settlement had gone through. There was one little link going, oh, if you were happy, leave us a review. And then years down the track we thought, you know what, we probably need more than one touch point because when we send that letter, it's just after their settlement, they're probably moving house, busy, yeah. Trying to connect electricity, internet, doing all this stuff, removal trucks. But in my head it was imposter syndrome where I'm like, oh, I'm going to annoy them. And I said to Abz, let's just do it. Let's just, yeah, text them a couple of times over the course of a couple of weeks, and if not, that's it.

They just won't reply and it's all good. And man, our reviews went crazy because we're not annoying people. I think if you text them you know, 10 or 20 times, they wouldn't like that. Of course. Yeah. But you send a few, 2, 3, 4 touch points. Yeah. Saying, no pressure. Man, we got so many more reviews. And that just boils down to the fact that people are busy, and they might not be in the right frame of mind when that first message comes through, but the second or the third, they might be sitting on the couch and go, oh yeah, Thomas, he was good. Yeah. I'll leave him a quick review. 

Absolutely.  I suppose it's almost selling something without actually selling something. You need to follow it up, knowing that you're not always going to get it and having those different touch points, you're making it easier for the client to say those good things about you. Like you said, they could be busy. You know, the kids screaming, they're doing shopping, they're on another phone call. And some people I've noticed too, they might not like to respond via text. They might like to do the Google link via email. If you're in person, I'm going to do it right now. I have people that say, hey, scan the QR code, or thanks for reminding me. Yeah. Scan this QR code. Do it right now. Yeah. Having all those different things and everyone's different. And that's what I've learned dealing with so many different people. You need to have different avenues because you know everyone's different.

Yeah. 

And may That's a very good point. With my inbox, I actually file everything out of my inbox once I've actioned it. Yeah. So if I've read an email and I need to action it, once I do that response, I'll file it away. Yeah. So my inbox is like a to-do list. If, if a business messaged me asking for a review, I value reviews, as a business owner that is passionate about it, I value reviews. So if I did get a good service, I want to give that back. 

If it sits in my inbox, that's almost like a "job" for me, and it'll stay there until I get it done. Whereas a text, you know, if I open that text and I've read it. Man, for me, it's gone into the abyss.

Yeah. Whereas other people, you know, maybe the text is is a better solution for them. 

A little trick I, I have when someone texts me with something, this this is just good knowledge in general, is I screenshot it and then I email it to myself. Because exactly like you said, sometimes you'll read the text, but to read an email, you have to log into your email, check, put it as read.

So it's like work mode. Yeah. You can go. Whereas if it's in your personal check, you're 

right. It's gone. Whereas if it's in your inbox, it's a job. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

And that's why you guys, as a law firm, will send everything via email. Because you know, everyone knows when they get an email it's serious.

Serious, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Compared to say a text message. 

Yep. Yep. Mate, I love that. One more little subpoint for this section, and that is the telephone. Yeah. So the telephone, we're talking phone calls now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

I know you've built your business, certainly recently, just by getting on the phone, talking to agents, introducing yourself.

Yeah. Mate, that's a pretty rare thing these days, I believe. I don't think people want to get on the phone anymore. Yeah. Let's just expand on that because it's worked really well for you. 

Yeah, absolutely. George. I believe the best way to start cold calling anything, whether you're in sales, whether you're in business development, is to, if you have a mirror in front of you.

Look at yourself while you are making the phone call. If you don't have a mirror, record yourself. And if you don't want to record yourself, just voice record. Okay. You want to see how your emotions are under pressure. Okay. Does your knee twitch? Does your eye twitch? Do you stutter? Are you shaking? 

One thing I learned about myself, especially during winter, is if it's cold, I'll shake anyway. So I make sure I put a jumper on or I walk to a room that's warm. I'm aware of that, that's something I do. Mm-hmm. And I think when you cold call someone, or you're making a sales call or whatever, you need to be prepared.

Obviously. Have your scripts ready. Have their name written down. Do not forget the person's name you've called. Do a little bit of research about that person. Know how many people are on their team, how long they've been in whatever industry it is. If you're selling them something, you want to know more about the product you are selling, then they do.

These are obviously basic things that you learn, but yeah. But mate, they're, they're basic, but they're not. because I guarantee you, most people. Let's, let's rewind a bit. To the audience listening out there, for me, I see the gap as people don't want to pick up the phone.

So I know you're talking through tips and tricks and best practices and these, these quote unquote "basic" things, are actually not that basic mate, because most people don't do them. So you saying by having your ducks in a row and sort of researching the person, say, you're going to call George Sourris for Empire Legal. You jump on the website, look me up, work out what my role is, where we are located, all that sort of, absolutely.

Yeah. And does that then help you. Make the call more confidently? Because most people 

won't pick up the phone. They just will not ring. They're too scared. Of course. You've go to remember the person that you are calling, that's picking up the phone is just another human being. So you need to understand, if I was to call you, I'd say I've looked you up.

You're a director of, you know, a of conveyancing firm. You guys have three offices. I'd try and find something that would make me stand out also. Because you go to remember, if you're calling, especially agents or trying to sell to your mum and your dad customers.

Everybody's calling, everybody's taking their time. You need something to stand out. And by giving them the fact that you've at least taken the time to research them, know their name, know their team. And if you can't get through to who you want to get through. So to just say you, I was to call you, which I know I can't call you directly, I would call the office.

I would maybe look up someone else that works in your office and say, hey, have I got a connection with this person? I'd say to that person, oh, hey, does George come in on a certain day? You know, could I maybe meet him? Possibly?

Understand that the person is busy. They're always busy, and you're trying to get, I suppose, their attention. But provide them value, you know, rock up with some, and you, you, when you first started you, you had this when you guys had your coffee van, I suppose yeah. Before it got stolen - rest in the peace of the coffee van.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, trying to get someone's attention, I suppose. And we are, we are an attention economy. Knowing what the contact you want. To make that, you know, that connection with.

Everyone's busy, right? If I think about me, like I, I, I, I don't, I don't want a phone call. But you're right, like people won't be able to ring me in an Empire Legal capacity. But yeah, maybe if it was get on the phone to someone else or go, can I flick him an email or this or that, that's another way to get through.

But yeah, there has to be value there. Whereas for me, I'm not calling back the guy that wants to sell me solar for my roof, or the guy that wants to send me SEO keywords or anything like that. But if it's something property centric, and you got through to me. I'd read the email. Yeah. I I actually would, yeah.

Depending on what it was, I'd read it. And if I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. I don't, don't have a smoke alarm guy. I don't have a pool inspector. 

Yeah. And, and that goes back to obviously earlier building that relationship and that rapport. Just a cold call isn't going to cut it. You need to follow up with a text message, an email, in person contact. Because at the fourth touch point is what he's going to seal at that point, whether or not they want to conduct business with you at all. You know, follow up from that also. 

Or leverage relationships even more. Right. I'm just thinking what, what you've done in the past and what's worked well for you. If you'd cold called me and you said, oh, Kos Comino from LJ Hooker said to give you a call.

I rate Kos very highly. Kos has done personal work for me and property. I'd listen. Yeah. If, if someone said, Kos Comino told me to give you a call, you'd have my attention. So it's just another way to open the door, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Leveraging good contacts through rapport that you've built with that contact over the years is definitely one of the best ways to network, I suppose.

And open that door. And if you know that you're not going to immediately open that door with that person, build rapport with their team, like I was saying. Yeah. I'm sure if whoever wanted to get your attention sent a box of croissants to Empire Legal every day for a week with their business card, you'd call that person back and at least thank them.

Yeah, yeah. Or you know what? Even if the reception team came through and said, oh man, this Thomas guy has called, does smoke alarms. 

Yeah. 

You know, wasn't annoying. Like it was, he was real nice. Always be 

polite. Always be polite. Yeah. Yeah. Like it does go a long way, doesn't it? 

Yeah. 

Well, mate, one more thing then to tie this section up is, let's just go back to the, I know I'm obsessing about it, the phone calls.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I think this is a huge key that people could unlock. 

Yeah. 

If you were to boil it down in a couple of sentences, what do you do to actually get on the phone? Like, do you psyche yourself up? Do you go, I'm just going to make five phone calls, I'm just going to make two phone calls.

Like, what do you actually do to get build momentum? 

I'm actually glad you asked because I forgot to mention this earlier. What you want to do is have your call list for the day, okay. And this is for any, obviously, for any sales agents listening or anything. You are going to know who's high priority, what's low priority. Call 10 low priority calls first, or one or two, and just start. Just start. Or start calling family members or call someone who's going to answer that's not that high priority call, or what you want for the day. Get, get in the zone. Warm up. Warm up, obviously. And that's what I was saying to you. Warm up could be even warm the room. Put a jumper on if you need to. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Make that first call. Get it out of the way. Take a deep breath. I've read a few things online. The best way to sort of reduce, you know, your, your heart rate and everything is when that phone rings.

Take a deep breath and hold it in for four seconds. Breathe out for four seconds. Wait four seconds. Breathe in again. Okay. It's called box breathing, so it's 4 4 4 4, okay. And that will slow you right down. And then as soon as that person starts talking, have your scripts in front of you. Hey I'm calling about this.

I know you're busy. Are you interested? Firstly, yes or no. Okay. If you, if you're not interested, no worries. All the best. If they haven't hung up on you with the first 15 seconds. Have your script, be concise in what you want from them. Okay? Hey, I'm selling this, or I can provide you this.

I know you already have this service or this product. We can do it better. I'll show an example of this. Okay? I'm going to send you a follow up email. And leave it at that. 

How good is that? And you've acknowledged upfront that they're busy. Yeah. And you've also qualified saying if you're not interested, I won't waste your time.

Course. Course. I think that's great mate. And you probably will get some that go, oh mate, I've got my guy. I'm not interested. You just move on to the next. Yeah, 

of course. And like I said, have your priority lists. Warm up to them. Know when to call and when not to call. Understand people's schedules to the person, the client that you're going after, or the product you're trying to sell. I'm not going to try and sell something at 3:00 PM in the afternoon to parents who are picking their kids up from school. Okay. And I'm not going to call the sales agents at 6:00 PM when they're probably in a presentation. 

Okay. Yeah. Or on a Saturday when it's game day or the Saturday. 

Or, or if you call your tradies, usually in the morning they're on the tools. So know the person you're calling, I know George, yourself, you're probably going to be in the office between nine and five, you know, professional services. Yep. There's a good chance I would maybe get you for an email shot, at say eight o'clock in the morning or something, but you could be driving to work.

So you've go to go, you know that person that you're trying to get that attention, you need to break down and put yourself in their shoes. And what could I do not only to stand out, but provide value, but not be annoying either. It's a balance. hey., to, to balance. And that will open that door.

And if you can provide enough value, that person's going to take five minutes out of the day to listen to you. And then obviously follow it up with what you said you were going to do. 

Yeah. Yeah. I like the follow up email example. Yeah. Because if you just have that phone call, like we were talking about the busyness of life.

Yeah. 

Mate, they might forget your name or your company. Of course. Yeah. Or whatever. And they're like, oh yeah, he, that, that smoke alarm bloke was all right. Yeah. But then if they don't have a way to contact you, that's gone. 

Well, a hundred percent. So phone call. Text message. Send an email if you have to. If it's someone in your network that you cross in person, if you can get that handshake. A handshake these day, this day and age, it goes a long way. Oh, mate. Let's just, let's just spend 30 seconds on that. 

We're eight years in now to this business. Yeah. My preferred way of growing the business is to be introduced to someone, a potential referral partner, usually an agent or a mortgage broker, and then I will go and meet them.

Yeah. And people think they, they think I'm crazy. They do. They go, you go and meet them. I say, I go and meet everyone because I like to eyeball them. 

Yeah. 

I say, I call it the sniff test. Yeah. I want to make sure it passes my personal sniff test. Yeah. Which is, is this going to be a good fit for my business? Of course.

Is it going to be a good fit for the 20 people in Empire Legal that will have to work alongside this person and their team every day? And mate, you work out over the years what you're looking for and what you're not looking for. Yep. And if you're not, you're better off just to say there and then that it's not a good fit and move on.

For us, we don't do kickbacks. We don't give or receive, you know, monetary kickbacks. Yeah. And I qualify that even before the meeting now. Because I used to go to meetings and have a great meeting and then at the end they're like, oh mate, all sounds good. Gimme a hundred bucks a deal.

What waste of my time. What a waste of their time. Because it like, it breaches my core value. I don't want to do, I'm not going to do that. Of course. 

Yeah. 

So now I want to find that out upfront. 

Yeah. 

I want to meet them. I want to look at them and if we get along and I think it'd be a good fit, we bring them into the network and off we go.

And I think that shaking their hands, sitting down for a quick coffee. It doesn't have to be a 60 minute meeting. Yeah. You can sit down for 15, 20 minutes, have a quick coffee of course. Yeah. I'm busy. And you work out if you like someone pretty quickly or not. Yeah. And if the value's going to be, you know, received well on both ends, and off your trot. 

Absolutely. If you are the director of a legal practice, and you are coming to me at a time that I'm not busy. Just say I'm a sales agent, it's 10:00 AM. You've got building a pest or something on. If a legal director has taken the time out of his day at 10:00 AM to come and see me, okay, I would immediately value that.

George has taken time off to come and see me personally, and shake my hand for that five minutes. I would be like, okay, this is a serious guy. I need to sit back and go, his time is almost, it is completely, it's the most valuable time. You know what I mean? Everyone's time is running.

Yeah. But you're running, it's serious. That's word. But he's come to me when it's not, it's not my most valuable point of the day. Okay. And he's come to show me what he does and everything. And he's come to me. That's the other thing too. Your travel time, your time off work, you know, you could be doing, 2, 2, 3 deals in that time. Mate other lawyers aren't leaving their desk. Yeah, of course. They will not leave their desk Absolute, exactly. They won't leave their meeting room. They won't even leave their building. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's serious. I'm serious. Yeah. I'm coming to you because I want to work with you, the clients.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll service them and, and that will always be the best way to, I suppose, network and meet people is in person handshake. 

I firmly believe that. There's other schools of thought and all. There's all different ways to acquire business. But if you think of the relationships that we've built over the years.

Yeah. It's a very similar journey of meeting them, building that genuine relationship with them. Course. Yeah. It's not because they're getting a kickback or they're getting something. Yeah. It's, it's because they like Thomas, they know Thomas, they trust Thomas, so they're going to call Thomas. 

Of course. Yeah.

And then, yeah, over time you can then lean also on the fact that you have reviews or someone's given you a good referral or something to say, hey, the social proof. Yeah. Yeah, the social proof. And that grows over time. But if you don't have anything at all, by telling someone face to face that you're going to do something it's usually a pretty good way of them understanding who you are as a person, you know?

So, yeah. Well, mate, the reviews are just, they, they just, they help with the whole, the whole experience. Say they find experience, say they meet you, and then they look you up, and they're like, oh, 300 reviews, five star average. Yep. Services the areas I'm in.

Rock on. That just gives a big, huge green tick. Because I think as people now in the modern world, we're pretty good at getting on Instagram, Googling. Yeah. And just trying to suss out, is this a scam or is this legit? 

Yeah, yeah. Doesn't matter if it's conveyancing or smoke alarms or, you know, even going to a restaurant mate. If we're going somewhere, my wife and I, of course. Yeah. We'll look up the restaurant on Instagram, we'll Google them and you know, just check the reviews are good. 

Can I ask George? When you check the reviews, do you check the best reviews or do you check the worst review? 

It's a great question, mate.

I'll look at the star average and the amount of reviews, and then I'll filter straight to the the one stars and have a look at what's wrong. 

The timeframe though, just say if it was five years ago. It's probably a different owner or something. Yeah, a different story. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

But yeah, there is, it's a bit of an art to it, isn't it?

You have to have a certain amount of reviews to trust it. If it's 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 reviews and like, oh, it could be their mum and dad and their mates. Yeah, yeah. But if you've got 300 of them, like it's legit. 

Well, yeah, absolutely. And, and any business I suppose is like that, you know, and they, they can build that social profile by just giving a great experience. 

Yep. Alright, let's wrap that part up there and move on to the next point. Let's dive into smoke alarms in particular. Okay. 

Yeah. 

So, smoke alarms. Let's talk about where the laws are at now, right. And where they're going. because as I understand, there's a pretty monumental change coming in the next less than a couple years, as I recall.

Yep. Do you want to talk through that and then we'll just yeah. Just explain what's happening to the people. 

Yeah, absolutely. Well, most people watching this show obviously are either homeowners are going to be homeowners, or obviously sellers or sales agents. The laws changed January 1st, 2022. All properties that were rental properties, properties needed interconnected and photoelectric smoke alarms, in all bedrooms, hallways, one per level and then leading obviously towards the exits. Okay. So from that point too, when someone sells a property, they have to have compliant smoke alarms compliance for a sale of a property in Queensland. Yes. And also for if they're renting, right? Yes. So, well, that's what I was just saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you're renting or selling, this is today as of, you know, the last five years, this is the case.

And can I just ask one quick question on that? Yeah. What's photoelectric? 

Okay. So Photoelectric, they see dust particles and smoke. 

Oh, okay. 

Whereas the old ionized alarms, which were in a lot of properties they smell the smoke. Okay. If that's the easiest way to sort of say it. Yep.

Okay. And then obviously now the new legislation requires them to be interconnected, so when one goes off, they all go off. Okay. Yep. Right. So if you're downstairs and there's a fire and you're up in your bedroom, the one in your that go off the one bedroom, the, if the one downstairs detects a fire. 

Absolutely. If that door is shut, that alarm's going to act like a siren. Also a fail safe, smoke travels a different path, it's going to alert you to get up and get out of the property. Yeah. Okay. And then as of January 1st, 2027, all homes within Queensland, owner occupied homes, are required to update to the new legislation, which we've just discussed.

So there's only 14 months left across Queensland where people should start looking at getting their property upgraded. A lot of properties have been bought and sold, or been rented out where they have, have been done.

But that owner occupy, that's been in that property that hasn't rented their property, hasn't sold their property. Within the next 14 months, they should look to update that. 

Okay, so by the 1st of January 2027? Yes. They have to be compliant. 

They have to be compliant, yes. Okay. 

So my parents are a textbook example of this.

They've been in the same house for 35 years. Haven't transacted, haven't rented. So they for sure wouldn't have compliant smoke alarms for these new laws. So they'll have to get that sorted. 

Absolutely. And they're probably from a safety point of view also, for all Queenslanders out there, smoke alarms usually have a 10 year lifespan on their sensors.

Okay. So the ones in your parents' house, may be already expired. They may not be working correctly. They might not work when they're tested. They're certainly not going to be interconnected into the bedrooms. So just from a safety point of view, it's good for all Queenslanders to update that anyway, for themselves, but also to be obviously compliant.

And I would assume within the next 14 months, insurance companies will be jumping on that saying, hey there was a fire. Did you have your smoke alarms done? Can you prove it with a compliance certificate from your electrician? If you don't have that, we're probably not going to insure you. I'm not insurance, but I would assume that's sort of the way that it's probably going to go. Yeah. If it's the law and they're not complying with the law, then I imagine that that would make that insured event, possibly not insured. That's a really good insight.

Yes. 

That's probably the path they're going to go down. 

Let's talk a bit about the actual, certificate. The smoke alarm certificate. Yeah. So right now, property's about to be sold, Real estate agent gives you a call and says Thomas, vendors need smoke alarms. 

Yeah. 

What, what do you do?

Let's just do a one or a two minute walkthrough. What's that process, that journey look like for you, from when you first get to that property or interact with that client until they've got the smoke alarm certificate in their hand?

Okay. Generally I'll ask whether or not they know if they've had their alarms updated in the last couple of years. Obviously, if they've had it updated since January 1st 2022, I know that there's a good chance that the company that's come through has done it correctly. Has issued some sort of a certification to say, hey, we've put them in, we've done them to the correct standards. They're in the right spot, so the right type, they're all working. Okay.

If you don't have that paperwork, or the easiest way, to check if, if you've had it done and you've forgotten and just say a different family member's organise someone to come in. Is just checking the bedrooms. If, if they're in the bedrooms, there's a good chance then that they've been updated. Okay. Not all the time, but it's a good chance. So we'll start there normally. Okay. So back in the day then, we're talking before these laws, was it quite uncommon to put smoke alarms in bedrooms? It was just in the hallways? 

Yes. It was quite uncommon. Okay. So quite uncommon to have them in the bedrooms.

It was more so, one or two in the hallways. Near the kitchen maybe? Yeah. Usually just outside the kitchen. Not so much in areas that would cause sort of a nuisance alarm, but just the hallway just near the kitchen. And there might be one or two upstairs, just depending on the building code, obviously at the time.

That changed in 2017. So all new homes and significantly renovated homes went down new compliance path, putting them in the bedrooms and things like that. Okay. We would attend normally say, hey look. You don't have any compliant alarms at all.

We'll check what you already have. Okay. I'll give you a quick assessment. Let you know, hey, look, these are why we have to do it. This is the current legislation. Just say that people that don't watch Raising the Bar podcast, or they aren't aware. Thanks for the plug. You know, Hey, look, this is why we have to do it.

You're obviously selling your property. We, we need to up upgrade it. Because you need to, on your contract form, you need to tick a box to say you've done it. Okay. Yeah. because a lot of vendors, you know, if they're at that point where they're ready to sell, they don't want to spend unnecessary money. So I guess of an education piece is going, this isn't unnecessary.

Well, this is required. 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course. It is required. And I believe if they don't do it they end up having to pay the buyer some sort of a fee.

How it works, is at least if it's on a standard REIQ contract in Queensland. Yeah. And the buyer's solicitor is cluey and knows what they're doing. They can say, we will apply. I believe it's 0.15% of the purchase price is applied because you don't have compliant smoke alarms. Yep. And the kicker for that is, if you actually read the terms and conditions of the standard REIQ contracts, the seller doesn't actually have an obligation to provide that smoke alarm certificate.

Which of course you would know. Yes. But for the listeners out there, the onus is on the buyer to prove that the seller doesn't have compliant smoke alarms. 

Of course. Yeah. 

So the buyer, it's, it's buyer beware in Queensland. Yes. The buyer actually has to attend with a qualified electrician if there's no certificate, to work out if they're compliant or not.

And if that sparky says no, it's not compliant, then the buyer can get that adjustment in their favor. Of course. Yeah. But in practice, what we do see is the majority of the good real estate agents out there, they will get the vendor to hand over that certificate just so they can tick that off and not have to worry about that extra inspection and all that back and forth between solicitors. Of course.

Is that fair to say? Yeah, fair to say too. And if, you're in that property, and just say I rock up or whatever company rocks up and says, hey look, they're not compliant, and you know that, and you tick a box knowing that it's incorrect, then obviously you're at fault there.

So the best thing to do in that case is to just update your smoke alarms, which ends up being a lot less than that penalty. The penalty. The penalty that effectively a penalty because it's a waste of everybody's time. Yeah. Well, let's talk about cost then. And you know, I get, there's probably a range and all sorts of different products and types of smoke alarms, but just for the everyday person out there that just wants to be compliant.

Yeah. I guess it would matter on how big the home is as to how many alarms are required. Yeah, absolutely. What's a budget that people would need, to upgrade their home? 

Well, normally, let's just say your property values around a million and under. For every million, I would set aside between $1,000 - $1,500.

For a $2 million property, between $2,000-$3,000 I would set aside, and you'll find something in that range. You might even get change from that. Okay. And it depends too - some people, they might be selling their property, to use it as a rental property.

So they might want to put in a product that's going to last, like a more premium product.

You're paying this money, what's an average lifespan? It varies based on the product as to how long you get out of it? No, so in 

Queensland, the products usually last for about 10 years.

Okay. Okay. But it's to do obviously, like anything, we can say they're all going to last, but if, you know, they've got a warranty in to back that too that helps. And obviously if the product's replacing, 240 volt, like electrical fittings. Obviously you need a license trade to do that. These things are something you can't do yourself sort of thing. 

And you don't necessarily know until you are there, right? No, no. Because as I understand it, you can have complianct smoke alarms now that are photoelectric interconnected. Yes. And they can either be battery operated or hardwired.

They can. Is that correct? 

They can. You can have a mixture. If you have no pre-existing hardwired alarms in the house, you can go down that avenue. The only issue with that is, it's like saying I can brush my teeth at home, but I know the dentist is going to do a much better job. Okay.

It's the same thing when you're selling a house. You can do it yourself, but you've got to tick that box and know that, hey, have I done it properly? Are they the right type? Have I put them in the right spots? Do they work? Have I bought the right thing? Mm-hmm. If the buyer comes through and checks this and it's not, I'm going to have to pay them to do this correctly. It's like anything really, you want it done by a professional, I suppose.

Poor man pays twice, mate. Have you heard one before? Poor. Yeah. And 

I've been to plenty of jobs, George, where people have tried to do things themselves. And we're always finding, we're always fixing things up and they go, oh, we should've just called you to start with. And it's, it's, it's like me trying to do my, I suppose my own conveyancing. 

Which crazily enough, it's pretty rare these days, but it can still happen. Or in the real estate world , you've got, you know, people selling their own homes as well.

Exactly. You can't compare that to the agent that does that every day of the week, or the solicitor that does every day of the week, or you do it every day of the week. This is your specialty. 

That's what I tell people. Yeah. Use a professional for whatever it is. They're going to know what they're doing. They've been doing it forever. They do it every day. If you've got any question, we've, you know, we have, we do have heaps of clients that ask a lot of questions. We're able to answer them on the spot, show them exactly what is required, and then help them to get to where they need to.

If it's something where the property has been updated and they've lost the paperwork, and I say to them, hey, we are able to come in, see what's happened, and we can offer you that certification if it's done correctly. And a lot of the time it will be. If it's been sold and they've lost the paperwork .

Or if it was done by a licensed electrician and they've lost the paperwork. They can't get in touch with them and get certification. Yeah. They can't get in touch with them. Certificate or whatever. Yeah. Or the lawyers or something like that. But yeah, that's another service that we offer, so, yep.

Great. Yeah. And then basically at the end of the day, you finish the job, they get the certificate, and then you're done. Happy days. 

Yeah. Happy days. Yeah. That's it. And then I always say make sure you give a copy of this to conveyancer. It's very important as a service we offer for our clients.

We normally email it to the the sales agent also so they have a copy just so their team has a copy. Just so everyone has a copy, whether or not. It gets lost in an email to the conveyancers, someone has a copy. Oh mate, how good is that? It also gives you an opportunity, I guess, if it's an agent that you haven't worked with before. If I was an agent, and I got that email going, oh, cool, this contractor sent it straight to me. Yep. Who's he? 

How good's that? That's right. They're the little points of difference, I suppose, that take two minutes out of your day to do. That set you above everyone else. 

Yep. Mate. That's great.

So I guess the public service announcement for this point is, 1st of January, 2027. All owner occupier in Queensland that don't have compliant smoke alarms, you're going to have to be thinking about that next year. You're going to run out of time. You've go to get it done. 

Have to get it done. Yeah. 

Yep, yep.

Beautiful. Well mate, let's move on to our last point. Yeah. I've got here. Work life balance. Let's take a shift over there. So I personally think that you as an individual have developed what I see as a good balance where, mate, you're not flogging yourself every second of every day. You know, I, I've seen the Thomas evolution from when we were teenagers, and that's what everyone was doing.

Yeah. To, to now. Yeah. You know, you've got a great partner. You're happy, you live your life. Yeah. How'd you, how do you deal with that? Or was that, was that like a vision where you said, I can still be a high performer, have a successful business, but not work myself to death? Was there an incident in your life where you're like, something happened?

Like if you, if you're willing to share, if there was one. Let's just talk about that. Because the balance you've got made as an outsider looking in, I think you got it worked out. 

The best thing I've ever heard, and I know you've heard this, because you told me this. Is, there's three pillars to life, health, wealth and relationships. Okay. And life is about building those three, in that order, and then it's a constant balancing act. So when you're younger, obviously you want to build your health. You want to stay active, you want to go to the gym, you want to go for a run play sport. And then as you finish your schooling journey you might go into the workforce, or you might go to university.

You might become a business owner, entrepreneur or something. Okay. That's the second stage that's sort of your wealth creation. And then while you're doing that, you're balancing the first one, which is your health. And then when you have those two sort of built up, and obviously the next step in life is relationships.

You meet someone, you meet a partner, and then you're balancing all three. Okay. Relationships might not be a partner, it might be kids, it might be it might be pets. You're balancing all three. And I think life is about having those three things, and then working constantly to balance them.

When one takes from the other one, you notice. Like, just say you're working too much, you lose track of your health. Then you also lose that time with your family or your partner or whatever. Then if you're spending too much time on holidays, then your wealth is attacked by that. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's a constant balancing act and I think if everybody understands that there is those three pillars in life and that it is a balancing act, then once you find that, you are able to understand and then really, really live a happy and healthy life, I suppose.

And I think you go through seasons, right? You do, absolutely. Yeah. Think in the early days of the business, despite what people tell you. Mate, you just have to grind and work and grind and work. And I did that, put on a truckload of weight. Then I did a pivot. I remember this was back in our Fortitude Valley office when we had it there, years ago.

And I made a promise to myself. I said, I'll go to the gym every morning no matter what before I go to the office. And it taught me the discipline of getting up early to go to the gym early. And this shout out to George Batsinilas, Fitaz. That's when I was training at Fitaz. And you were as well, I believe years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. And mate, I'd wake up early and Georgio was the legend. He's like, you come and train with me in the morning. Once a week I'd train with Georgio. 

Yeah. 

And man, if I messed up and I slept in, I wouldn't get to train with Georgio. 

Yeah, I'd go to the gym late, which means I'd get to the office late.

Because my promise was, I'm not going to the office until I've gone to the gym. 

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. 

So if you get to the gym at 9 and you work out till 10, and then you get to the office at 10.30, you're behind the eight ball all day. You are. Yeah. Whereas you just get up early and you get to beat the traffic, get to the gym.

Yeah. And then you're sitting at your desk. Everything, that positive snowball. It just works, doesn't it? It it, it does. Yeah. 

Yeah, it does. And then those seasons, you learn, like, then I got my health under control and then, you know, I didn't have a partner at the time or wasn't married. Now it's a whole different game, because you've got all three and you know, I've got a child now, I've got a wife.

It's just a different evolution of that balance. 

And it's a constant balancing act, I would imagine. 

Yeah. Yeah. But, but getting back to you, it's not, it's not about me. No, it's, you we're talking about how you do it. Yeah. So you've got this awareness that there's these three different pillars. Yeah. Is it about being strict with certain promises you've made yourself, what is it?

You always seem to be pretty emotionally happy, man. You don't seem super stressed. You've got enough work, you've got a good relationship. You got it all worked out. 

I, I think with those three pillars, it's about. Like, obviously as you build them, they work in that order, as you build them.

Your health is the number one thing, and that determines then your mind. Okay. So that's the most important thing at the, at the bottom level. Really. If you didn't have food or water, everything else would, would sort of go from there. And that, and that includes obviously your mental health and everything too.

And you want to be sharp. I'm going to go on a sort of a little tangent here, I suppose. Let's go, let's see where we end up. With your mind too and all, all these things. You want a healthy body, to have a healthy mind. Especially in the business world, business is the toughest sport that there is, and you are up against professionals every day.

These guys rock up, they don't rock up sloppy and slow. So why aren't you rocking up like that? Why are you rocking up not the best version of yourself? You want that clear mind. You want to be the best version of yourself. So when you rock up every day, you're at your best, for any opportunities that do come up.

Let's keep rolling with that. That's good. Yeah. You know what? It comes back to that point you said before. It shows you're serious. Mate. You rock up. You're in good nick. You're not some fat slob. Yeah, you're well dressed. You got your, you know, your business shirt on. Yeah. I'm here for business. Yeah. That is the sport, isn't it? 

That that is the sport. Business is the biggest sport in the world, and I don't think people understand that. You know, they worry about football, they worry about golf.

Business is the biggest sport in the world, and the best players play that sport, okay. And they're not rocking up sloppy or slow. And how can you expect to compete in business, if you don't at least rock up yourself to the same standard.

Doors don't just open. You need to be there, ready for that door to open every day. And by keeping your body sharp, that in turn keeps your mind sharp. And I also believe too when it comes to your mind, at least one day a week for 30 minutes, people should learn to keep that mind clear of all the week's activities. Whether that's to meditate, go for a walk, see nature. Okay. Go for a drive, turn the phone off. Clear the mind so that you are ready. Whenever your week starts, whether it's Monday morning or for agents, whether it's Saturday morning, whatever, your mind is clear and ready to go.

Okay. And say, hey, it's game day. I'm clear. I'm ready. My body's healthy, my mind's sharp. I'm ready to roll. That's a journey though, isn't it? That is, I, I'm on that path a little bit now with trying to not be so connected to tech. And it's hard mate. It's hard. Like I've got my own little milestones I'm working towards, and I'm far from there.

Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm trying. 

Yeah, of course, of course. One of the best things you can do, you know you're a busy person and you want to disconnect from tech a little bit, you still want to sort of have it on you, take your phone calls while you are going for a walk.

If you're at the gym, you can listen to your podcast or you know, you can listen to this podcast if you want.

So just bringing it all back then to that work life balance and those three buckets, which yes, man, those three buckets, they're great, hey. It's a good little analogy to help people. It is, yeah. Because you can have a six pack and be broke. They will not want to be broke. No. 

Yeah. You can be fat with money, and you don't want to be fat. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And you know, then you're lonely. You want a partner.

So all these things they work in together, and the happiest people usually have worked out how to have balance, a good amount in all three. Yeah. Yeah. So how would you close out that section then? 

I would say, write down the life you want, and build your life around it. Okay. Build a life that you are happy to rock up every day, even when you don't want to, and that you don't need a holiday from.

Yeah, these people go and work their butts off to go on some holiday for a few weeks, but then there's, there's 50 other weeks in a year. Re-engineer your life so that you get a little bit of a holiday in your day. 

Yeah. 

Like I, I don't ever feel like I need a holiday. 

So mate, that's work life balance. To whoever's listening out there, they get some pretty good little tips to get you started. And like anything we've spoken about, if you just Google it, there's, there's world class experts you can learn for free on the internet, right? I do that every day.

Listen to YouTube. It's free. 

Absolutely. And I know, we both listen to Alex Hormozi. Yep. The great entrepreneurs of YouTube. And it's free. You can have a look. Most of these guys are putting out content every day and it's, yeah, mate, I'm just taking a bit from him and a bit from 

Gary Vee and a bit from all people that I like, and that's how I've tried to make my life better. There's no more gatekeeping. It's all free information. 

Yeah. If you're time poor, put it on 1.5x speed and listen to it. The information's there. If you hardcore, listen to it on 2x.

Alright. I've got one more thing for you then just to wrap this up. Yeah. It's called the Golden Nugget. I know you've listened to a few of our episodes, so you probably know what it is. Basically it's one piece of advice, not necessarily electrical or business related. It can be anything at all that you feel is important that to the listeners out there that they may want to know, or that can make their life better. And I'll, I'll leave it at that, mate. 

Okay. I'll leave you with this, George. There's a version of yourself that goes to bed early, that wakes up before you, that exercises daily.

That doesn't drink, doesn't smoke. Is thankful that they are alive every day and healthy. Does the work that you are not willing to do. That version is the better version of yourself. That is your competition. It's you verse that better version of yourself. If you aim to be that person, I guarantee you'll be successful. However, don't get complacent. Because that success is rented and that rent is due daily. 

That's good, man. I that, I like that. Didn't you? That's pretty good. Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. Mate, it gave me goosebumps. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah.

I will pop in the, the show notes there, how to get in touch with you. Okay. Social media channels, contact information, all that sort of jazz. Yeah. So just very quickly to wrap this up, then you service a certain area.

I know you are Brisbane, predominantly is. South side, what's your core area? 

So imagine the Brisbane River. Start at Murarrie and sweep all the way across to Yeronga. Okay. And then sweep all the way back in. The cutoff is probably that Carindale, Mount Gravatt area. Beautiful. Okay. And if you imagine that pocket of Brisbane, that's the side of Brisbane that we service.

Great. And in the event that someone calls and they may be out of area, I imagine you probably have contacts you can introduce them to or whatever. Yeah, absolutely. So they should give you a call first.

Yeah. 

Absolutely. 

Yeah. Beautiful mate. Thank you for your time and for your insights.

That's all right. 

Thanks for having me, George. Yeah, mate. Good to have you. Yeah. And yeah, hope the listeners out there got a bit of value out of this one today. Absolutely. 

Like and subscribe and share. 

Thanks mate. Thanks thank you. Beauty.