Joanne Sourris: One woman, a solo law firm and three kids

Our first guest? George’s mum, Joanne Sourris. 

She built her own law firm while raising the guy behind Empire Legal (plus two more kids) so yep, she’s got stories. 

In this warm, honest and slightly iconic episode, George sits down with Joanne to chat about the QLD property world, resilience and what it’s really like being a female sole trader juggling business and family. 

They cover everything from early career challenges, to a $0 marketing spend, to what has (and hasn’t) changed in the legal industry.

Transcript

Welcome to the Raising the Bar podcast, where we story tell excellence in Queensland Property. I'm your host, George Sourris from Empire Legal.

Alright. Hey mum. 

Hey. 

Welcome to the very first podcast of Raising the Bar. 

Oh, thank you for having me. 

Thank you for being here. So guys, this is our very first go. So we'll see how we go with this. My social media and marketing manager is currently overseas, my youngest sister.

So yeah, you're stuck with me. Let's see how this turns out. So. Raising the bar. What is Raising the bar? So raising the bar is where we story tell excellence in Queensland property. And I think you're pretty excellent in when it comes to all things. Oh, 

thank you. That's nice to know.

In particular, we're gonna discuss Queensland property, okay?

Mm-hmm. So. Super proud to announce Joanne Sourris. Joanne's my mum. Fun fact, for those that may not know, mum was actually the original legal practice director of Empire Legal whilst running her own firm, Sourris Solicitors at the same time. Yeah, mum was steering the ship for Empire for the first two years, pretty much.

Yes. For Abi and I until I was able to get my principal certificate. And then you tapped out. 

Oh, well, it wasn't quite like that. When the time came for George to decide that I'd done my bit for him, he invited me out to Hellenika for dinner, which I thought. How lovely, what a lovely son I've got. So no sooner had we sat down and he ordered a couple of cocktails for me.

He brought out the form saying resignation of director. And I thought, gee, that was quick. Georgie, let me at least get, you know, have a drink or have a bit of a chat. But anyway, that's how it actually happened. 

Yeah. But in all seriousness, like we couldn't have started the business without you. Oh. Thank you.

We could, we couldn't have, Abi and I didn't have the right tickets to do the job. Mm-hmm. So thanks for taking a chance with us and for helping us get the business off the ground. You're absolutely a integral part of, we we wouldn't have been able to start it without you. 

It was my pleasure. Yeah. For both of you, for Abi.

And I've had a very long standing relationship with Abi as well, so. 

Well, we met Abi and I met because of you, introduced us, which was really cool. 

Yep. It's very good. 

Mm-hmm. So the idea is to talk about three key areas. Yes. So we're just gonna dive right into the first one. One, we're gonna try and keep them at about five minutes ago and then we'll wrap it up. So, alright. The whole point here right is. Showcasing excellence in property through storytelling. Yes. So, first one I wanna ask you is you've been in the game for over 30 years with a $0 marketing spend.

Correct. 

How'd you do it? 

Well, initially what I did was I printed out some flyers saying how fabulous I was back in the back in the 1990's, early nineties, and your father dropped me off. At the beginning of Coorparoo and I went to every single real estate agent and walked all the way. While, of course, dad drove and waited in the car giving out flyers and I was hoping to get some work from that, 

like with real estate agents or with real 

estate agents.

Went into every agency, and I'd say about 80% of them said to me. Thank you. That's very nice. But we have people that we use, but we'll keep you in mind. I know that 

all too well that conversation. Absolutely. It was 

like, we've got our people and we might give you a go. We'll see. So I was very, very disheartened got, didn't receive any phone calls and then I was just sort of waiting in my office for someone to ring with a contract.

And when I initially got my first few contracts, it was like. I can't believe it. Someone wants to use me. It was just so exciting that I rang up my husband, Georgie's dad, and I said, Harry, someone wants to use me. And Harry said, Harry, that's just awesome. And then after like 30 years when I get busy, I go, oh, not another contract.

So, 

Yeah, 

we'll touch on that more a bit later actually. Right. Talking about like. Being a sole practitioner and mm-hmm. Burnout and those, 'cause I think that's really, we'll, we'll unpack that later. 'cause they're really important topics with Yes. Staying in the game and doing what we do for longevity.

It's, it's pretty tough in professional services. 

A hundred percent. And there's been a big change from when I did it back to sorry. To now. When, you know, someone would ring up a client, they'd say, you'd say you happy with the pest and Building Yep. That was it. That was it. Nothing in writing? No. Confirming of anything?

No telling them what the consequences were. If Well, 

no written correspondence. Nothing. No written instructions. We didn't have 

email, we had nothing. Everything done was done by post. It was basically. A gentleman's handshake to say, yep, we're happy with that, and then continue on. And that was how it was.

And that 

was, that's like law society was okay with that. That was just normal behavior. A 

hundred percent. But we didn't have email. We'd had nothing happen. Yeah. Wow. That we didn't have social media. So that's how it worked. So it was very important back then to make sure that you diarised everything.

Time date, which I still do to this day. I'm a stickler for it. Even if I ring up and speak to someone at Bupa, I get their name and the time that I spoke to them. I think it's just ingrained in me now. That's proper 

lawyer style. 

Exactly. And dealing with the banks. Then you learn that when you are on a phone call and you're waiting before Pexa came in 

Yep.

For 25 or 30 minutes and they go Yeah, like 

hours, sometimes busy period ly, which is, you know, 

a time waster. And then they'd say, oh, I'll put you on hold. So then I learnt you say, can I have your name and number? Or you give me your name and number 'cause if I lose you, I don't wanna wait around for an hour.

So that's another thing that I learned. 

Funny you say that actually, I remember when I was learning, conveyancing with Abi, that was the exact same conversation. We get their name, obviously file note, everything. So important if it ends up in court, 

extremely. To make contemporaneous notes. 

Yeah. Well again, given the interest of time, let's say we've got three or four minutes left here.

Mm-hmm. 

$0 marketing surviving in the industry, which is pretty cutthroat. There's so many conveyances and property lawyers around. Yes. Without spending any marketing, I mean, it's a super unique strategy, I think compared to how like we do business. We obviously we're pretty big on socials and YouTube and trying to build our brand.

Mm-hmm. H how'd you do it? Like, I, I recall as a kid you were dealing with the re max out in the Bayside a fair bit. A lot with Narelle Gill. Yes. Who's since retired, but yeah, I remember that name popping up a lot when I was a kid listening to you do it. 

Yes. Well, I have to say big shout out to Narelle Gill.

She sent me the first couple of contracts and she continued, we continued that relationship on for many, many years. And she was did you know her? 

Like, did you, were you friends with her or anything? Or you No, not really. Okay. No. 

And she ended up mentoring me, which me, which was absolutely fabulous.

'cause when I was quiet, I used to get quite concerned and she'd say to me, just enjoy, enjoy the time when you're not busy. Go out and get your hair done, do the things that you can't do. And. The people will come. And that's exactly what happened. And through Narelle it was just word of mouth. And I got quite a few clients and quite a few other real estate agents used me because they were happy with their clients.

Gave them a lot of positive feedback. They always got me the solicitor. 

Yeah. Okay. So I guess it probably rings pretty true to like. Similar to how Empire does business, where it's a, it is a, a service based game in professional services. Right? There's obviously those there's the, the cheaper mobs about, and that's the, you know, there's a market for that.

That's okay. But. You've never been the cheapest. 

Never. My fees were always well above the average that people were charging for professional costs. I think I've, I've told George that back in the late eighties and nineties, a cottage conveyancing professional costs were like three, three and a half thousand dollars, excluding outlays.

And so, so the professional 

fees only back three and a half thousand 

dollars and no one battered an eyelid. It was just like, wow. Money for jam 

and it was on a sliding scale, right? As exactly. Was that the same time or before 

that? Yes, it was. So the more expensive the property, the more that you could charge.

Right. Well look, I mean obviously in Queensland you have to be a lawyer to represent someone for conveyancing unlike the southern states. Exactly. So yeah, it is interesting that we've got you know, guys in the game doing. A conveyance for $420 or so. They say, I know there's plus, plus plus, you know, usually isn't on the quote.

So what a contrast. And you know. $3,000+ back in the nineties. That's 

a lot of money. A lot of money. 

Yeah. It was 

a lot of money. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. It's actually tragic what's happening now in the legal profession with conveyancing and fees. So I guess I've always said, if you wanna pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys doing the work.

Well, look, that's, that's what we've thought about getting this podcast off the ground. Abi and I, for no word of a lie, probably two years. Mm-hmm. And we wanted, we were trying to think of a name and a strategy, and raising the bar really resonated because. Hand on heart. That's what we're trying to do.

Like the industry, it's challenging with some of these these cheaper guys out there, unqualified people. We, we want to genuinely raise the bar so that everyday people, Queenslanders, or interstates, or even overseas buyers mm, can get represented by people that professional in what they're doing and can help the client get a great experience.

Absolutely 

not a stressful one. 

So, when you're using a professional like myself and like George, then they will, you know, fix the problem immediately. You get instant. Gratification and instantly, you know, ans everything's answered and that's what the client wants. So in the past I've been referred to by a lot of the real estate agents who've said to, to their client, look, she's not the cheapest around, but she is very tenacious, but fair.

Yeah. And look, I guess on the other side of that same coin, I mean, I know exceptional paralegals like in, in our game, there is exceptional paralegals out there. I, I think where the gap is, is maybe inexperienced paralegals that have been. Thrown in the deep end without relevant training, mentoring to, because you know, they're, I reckon there's spectacular paralegals out there that run rings around the lawyers.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's so true what you're saying. I totally agree with you. If they've been trained properly and they know their job, they are exceptional. 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, they're masters of their craft. They know how to, no doubt, you know, half the game is. Having that relationship with the stakeholders, with the agents, the brokers, not only, you know, talking your client off a ledge.

Yes. There's a fair bit that goes on to, to wrangle the conveyance to get through. 

Oh, a hundred percent. I know that occasionally my husband's been in the office and he said to me, you're treating your, your clients like their children. And I said, well, look Harry, I said, they're first home buyers. It's very scary for them.

So I have to take them by the hand. And I always say to them, any questions are not stupid questions. Feel free to call me. However, you know, silly. You think the question is, it's not, I'm here to look after you from the beginning to the end to make this a positive experience for you to buy your home, which is one of the most expensive purchases you will make.

Well, usually the most, the most expensive purchase Yeah. That you'll make in your lifetime. 

Well, that probably feeds in well to tying up this first part of the podcast. So $0 spend for marketing. 

Mm-hmm. 

Sounds like what you're saying with service, that's the key, right? A hundred percent. Like I know you were talking about the early days, the brochures and stuff, and then meeting some agents.

It is just a word of mouth game from doing a good job consistently forever. Right? 

True. Communication is the key thing. So when an issue arises on a file, you don't do the old ostrich and bury your head in the sand. Even if you know that you've stuffed up, you gotta pay the piper and get it outta your life immediately.

Come clean across the bandaid. Yeah. Yeah. A client wants to hear the truth. They don't want to hear you beating around the bush. So, but as I said, communication is paramount. Very same with the 

agents and stuff, right? Yes. Like these agents you know, these guys are the glue that holds deals together. Yes.

So they, they, it's best if they're on board and they can jump in and fix a problem. 

They play a very important role as well. 

Yeah. 

Without them we would have no business. So I've always said with conveyancing, the agent wants to sell to get his commission. The seller wants his money. The buyer wants the house and the solicitor wants their fee.

So there should, that's how you have to aim for it. You, you're not there to be obstructive. Everyone wants the same result. We are not there to fight about anything. We are there to make it smooth sailing and done. 

Yeah. Well, when you compare it to other areas of law, like, you know, family and criminal and stuff, stuff, it's we've got a motivated buyer and a motivated seller.

And that's the game, isn't it? It's just helping these, if a buyer wants to buy and a seller wants to sell, agent helps keep everything alive. Then us and the mortgage brokers and the bankers, we work together to get the deal sorted. That's, it's not much more to it really. 

Yeah. We want that positive outcome.

We are not here, you know, arguing over, you know, a refrigerator in a family law matter. 

Well shout out to all the real estate agents out there. I know you guys get a hard rap a lot of the time. It's a tough game, what you guys are doing, knocking on doors and convincing people to sell their houses 

and getting knocked back all the time.

Yeah. Getting rejected. 

Alright, let's push on Mum. Yes. So I've got a question for you. Your colleagues would say you're a dinosaur. How would you respond? 

A dinosaur when it comes to tech, I guess George is laughing. George comes into my office, not as bad as I used to be, and there would be a pile of files just around me with all the paper, and there'd be this little head peeking over, oh, hey George, how are you going?

He'd say, mum, what are you doing? You gotta save this to the iCloud, or whatever it is. So when I first got email, it was just. So scary. And I remember one day I said to George, how do I copy and paste this? You know, I had to copy paste something. He just went, you know, like in three seconds. And there you go.

Do you know how to do that? I go, no, I don't. No, I don't. He goes, well, I've gotta go now. And I remember, I think it took me one and a half hours and in the end I was like frustrated and in tears. How to work, how to, oh, attach a document. And when I did it, you can do it 

now though. I was, you've adapted. So 

proud of myself.

Yeah. 

So, yes, a dinosaur in a lot of ways, but you know. Keeping up with the times as well, I guess. Hey, adapt or die, right? That's it. I gonna think it's coming back tot 

what you were talking about with no written instructions and advices. That's wild. To think that that's how the game was. It's come a long way.

A long way. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

You handled that well. Alright, next question. Alright, so doing it alone mm-hmm. Tips for current practitioners or anyone considering taking the plunge. 

Okay. So when I started my practice, I think Georgie was two, about two. So it was in the early 1990s. It was a big leap. It was very scary.

I was probably one of the first solicitors to do this. Okay. Discipline is key. You have to be disciplined. You have to head down, butt up, and just do your work. So I think being disciplined is very, very important. 

Yep. 

Also you have to. Forge relationships with other solicitors so that if you've got an issue, you know that you are 99.9% correct with what the outcome is or what you should be doing.

But it's always nice to have a backup that you can ring somebody and say, Hey George, this is the situation. This is what I'm thinking. What do you think? Yep, a hundred percent. You're correct. So you know you are, but you just need that, oh. It's a lonely game 

for a sole practitioner. It's, I actually reflect all the time going.

You know how, how do you do it? Yeah. Like I'm lucky I've got Abi Abi's got a wealth of experience. Yes. Wealth of knowledge. We've got senior lawyers you know, we, we bump heads in a room, you know, we all sort of sit in a room and go, this is the situation. What's the risk to the client? How can we make sure, you know, all the stakeholders remain happy, we can get the deal done.

And sometimes there's four or five people in a room Correct. Discussing scenarios, whereas, you know, you're on your own. It's I, I wouldn't wanna be in your shoes personally. It's not, not the game I'd wanna play. 

Well, it was difficult, but then as I said, you get a network, you'll get two or three solicitors that you can rely on.

They will renew, ask you questions, and that's how you get through. 

Yeah. Yeah. And then I guess another thing that I, I have seen through, you know, obviously you had a home office pretty much from as early as I can remember. 

Yes. 

Working from home, you were probably. Then, well, not probably. You were early to the game.

Yes. You think about covid and flexible working, I mean, you were doing that back in the early nineties, like, you know, dropping us to soccer, dropping us to school. Mm-hmm. Hot meals on the table or from home, like that was before its time, right? It wasn't common. 

No, absolutely not. Yeah. Like I said, I was one of the first I remember that, we eventually had three children. So had George, Nick, and Maddison, and they would be at home. I'd say, now mummy has to talk to some very important people so we mummy can make money and we can eat. I go, so you have to behave yourself. Don't fight. Don't be naughty. Yes, mummy. George would go, being the ringleader the minute I got on the phone.

They'd be fighting. They'd get in the pantry and they'd be getting the chips and the chocolates, and George would be teasing me from a distance going, ha, look what I, I, they go, I'm going to kill you when I get off the phone. Oh, yes, yes, yes. There is an easement on the property.

Yes. 

Well, I, I remember, I remember, especially with Nick, so Nick's five years younger than me. My, my younger brother. I remember when you're on the phone. Couldn't do, you couldn't do anything about it. No. So we would just go crazy. And then I remember as soon as you got off the phone, we'd sort of scurry and run outside or disappear.

So we didn't get in trouble. 

Exactly. 

And then I actually, actually also remember, and this is just a testament to how far tech's come, your, the landline from what I re No, it wasn't the, the landline was separate and then you had a fax line. Yes. Obviously fax was big back then for conditions and everything.

And notice. And dial up internet had popped up. 

Mm-hmm. 

And obviously, you know, we were, I was in, you know, my teenage years, high school and whatever, and dial up internet was a thing. So you, when you dial up to connect to the internet, it would drop the fax line. 

Mm-hmm. 

The fax line would be engaged. So you're waiting around for your 5:00 PM conditions for building and pests and finance and whatever.

Oh, that was so stressful. And we've gotten home from school, me and my, my, my mates and I, and you know. MSN Messenger was a thing and you know, we were trying to talk to girls and look up things on the internet and I remember like we'd try sneaky through the dial up tone, but you can't do that sneaky 'cause it makes that loud like noise, which everyone that.

You know, is maybe younger than 25 would remember. 

Mm-hmm. 

And you'd be like, you on the internet? I'm like, nah. And you'd go check the facts and it would say engage. Yes. And then I just remember like getting wrecked because you're like, you needed your conditions to come through. You're like, exactly.

When I look back now, and I, we didn't understand the impact, but you know, you missed a deadline like that and people are losing their homes and getting sued and all sorts of stuff. Oh yes. It was wild. 

Yes, yes, exactly. 

So I think, props to technology and how much it's changed. Oh, we've got a, we, I can work from anywhere now.

It's such a different game with Pexa. Even our office, you know, we chose our office in Spring Hill strategically to be close to the city. We could work in the suburbs now. No problem. We don't even need to go in the city 

anymore. Oh, absolutely. Like I can go out and. Have a coffee, you know, with girlfriends and I've got my emails on my phone.

It's just amazing the technology now, you know, sometimes I, we'll see you 

at Carindale 10:00 AM right now. I wanna find you as a few coffee shops that you absolutely frequent. 

Yeah. But even back then, I remember when I was pregnant with George and I would put him in the pram and go up to the city to do the settlements in the settlement rooms there.

And people go, oh, are you having a baby? I go, yes. It just wasn't the done thing for a professional back then to be, you know. Expecting and I used to bribe George. I go, now, Georgie, if you sit in the pram and you're a good boy, I'll get you a chocolate milkshake and twisties and go, okay mom. So then go up to the the table and you'd be doing your settlement, you know, getting, making sure all the cheques were correct.

And George's rolling around on the floor under the coffee table. And I remember he'd always come out and be covered in cobwebs 'cause it was so dusty. But yeah, they were the good old days, but he was a good boy. He did listen. 

Thank you. 

Yeah, we're a very good 

one. I even recall now, like, you know, back in the days when Abi and I started, Abi would stay at the base and she'd do all the emails and the phone calls, and I'd run to the bank, get the cheques.

Mm. We're in the Valley at that stage. Yes. And then I'd, I'd literally go 25 minutes on foot up to the city. Do all the settlements running around. It was so hot and it was just, it was just a whirlwind. We'd go from settlement to settlement. SAI global was like a zoo. Yes. You know, a hundred people and they're all screaming at each other.

And now we think we're so lucky. Like the, even the grad lawyers that are coming through our firm, there's. Just, they don't even understand what it was like. It was like, it was wild how settlements used to be. 

You just, you know, be there and they go, Sue, Sue, solicitors and paralegal, everybody here, banks here.

Yep, yep, yep. And you do it. And if someone was running late, it was like, oh my God, I have to be somewhere else in 15 minutes. And you get a phone call and they go, oh, we're gonna leave. Oh, we have to reschedule at five o'clock, but it's three. No. Then you'd have to hang around for two hours. 

Yeah. Yeah. And you'd make friends with all the settlement agents as well, saying Please stay here.

Please come back 

exactly at four 

o'clock or this won't settle. 

Yep, a hundred percent. 

Alright, so I've checked your Instagram bio. Mm-hmm. It says part-time lawyer, part-time chicken enthusiast. What's going on here? 

Well, I love my hens. I love my chickens. 

Mom's got chickens at Carindale lives. Yes. She's got a chicken coop.

Had it since we were kids. 

That's right. Yeah. So. We've had the chicken coop about 33, 34 years. So love my chickens. They've got great personalities and yeah. George used to paint the chickens toenails with my no. Yes, she did. Fake, fake news. True, true fake. 

No fake news. True. Never happened. 

And he was very good at hypnotizing them as well.

Again, fake news. No idea what she's talking about's True. 

Yeah, that's true. That is on my bio. 

It. Yeah. But we were lucky, you know, having, having animals in the backyard and stuff. I mean, I, I know it's a bit beyond the scope of this podcast, but I'd love to see in the future, say 30, 40 years in the future, if you've got grass in your backyard, I think you're gonna be rich The way, what's happening with Brisbane and, you know, property?

Well, I was born and raised in the country, so I've always loved animals. I'm a big fan of, you know, having pets and the kids, all the kids always had pets. I remember when George was at kindy, I took, you had to take show and tell and people taking, you know, cats and dogs. And we took out one of two of our chickens there and the kids at kindy were amazed.

They were going, are these chickens? Yes. What do they do? They lay eggs. Those poor chickens were so stressed out. I remember that when I came to pick him up, they was sitting on the. Toilet bowl in the, in the kids' toilets. They were just hanging on for deal off. At the 

kindie. 

At the kindie. And you know, 'cause everyone's going, oh, Chucky, Chucky.

And they're pulling them and playing and prodding them with them. And then we put them in the car, in the cardboard box and George's stroking the chicken. It was like two 30 in the afternoon. They was so stressed out. That they actually laid their eggs in the box, whereas usually they've laid by 9, 9 30.

Yeah. Well, a bit of a different environment. 

Yes. No, you had a great life. We had a big block of land there and you grew up with a lot of pets and, and doing a lot of things that kids, you know. Don't get to do today. Looking at all the animals and, 

yeah. Well, one of my cousins they've just bought a block or a house down in, in Bondi, and that's on 98 square meters.

Yeah. Crazy. No, no yard there. 

No. Well, we are on a, we are on a thousand square meters and we're still there. 

Yeah. So look, I guess we'll look back in time and maybe listen to this and go, man, grass in the backyard. Yes. I mean, all these subdivisions we're seeing here most people are opting for a little plunge pool and a patio area, and there's.

Most people don't have grass anymore. No. These new builds, unless they're on a big block. 

Yes, it is. 

Alright. Last question to wrap this up. 'cause they're gonna kick us outta the room pretty soon. Mm-hmm. The evolution of the female lawyer. Yes. It's probably a pretty long topic, but just to summarize your journey, I mean, at Empire, off the top of my head, we're, we're like 90% female.

Mm. 

You know, like our, our leadership team, apart from myself is female. Almost all of our file handlers except for one. All female assistant administration. We a female heavy team. 

Yes. I guess 

that's probably a contrast from you being what, a lawyer in the eighties. Is that when you started? I 

graduated in 1985, so I started in law school in 1980.

There were not very many females doing law back then.

But even from school. Right. You said you came outta Balmoral State High? Yes. In like Bulimba area there? 

Yes. 

So when I started my law degree, I think, oh gosh, probably 90% of the students there were either from girls grammar, boys grammar, or churchie.

So the majority were all private school kids. Yeah. So we sort of didn't fit in for probably the first year. So we just had friends that were like from the state high schools. We hung around together. So that's how it was. Back then, I remember when I graduated and I had to ring up one of the big law firms in the city and one of the senior partners I had to speak to.

And when they put me through, I said, hi, Joanne. S. I'm just ring up in relation to this matter, and he was a bit of an old fuddy duddy, which they were back then. He said to me, oh no, a few 

still exist now. There's not too many left, but you can spot 'em a mile away. 

He said, oh, no, no, no. He said, I do not speak to the secretarial staff.

I said, I'm a solicitor. Oh no. He goes, I don't speak to female solicitors. I went. Are you kidding me? So that's what we had to contend with back then. And really we have to give a a shout out to Floss Greig, who in 1897, was the first female to attend a law school back in Melbourne and 

1897. 

Yes. And she was, it was illegal.

She wasn't supposed to be there. Huh? All the male students, colleagues said, no, you can't be here. And then after 12 months they actually said to her, you know what? We'll pass a motion that yes, you can be here and study law. And then she pioneering the way, eh, a pioneer for women. And this is in Melbourne at the university down there.

And then she did her articles in 1905. She was admitted as the first female solicitor / barrister. So I think that's absolutely fantastic. So she's paved the way today. Completely different women. We've got women as. Judges, magistrates on boards running you know, matters with mergers with multi multimillion dollar companies.

So, and being 

mums and, you know, being mums, it's, I don't know how, how you guys do it. Many roles, happy with the kids and you know, just how much she can get done and multitask. And I'm like, wow. Especially with property law, there's a lot of moving parts. I do believe controversial. I think women are better at it.

I, I honestly do, like, I've seen male solicitors in the game. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I'm a male solicitor and I, I like to think I can move with pace and I'm a pretty switched on dude, but I, I struggle to keep up. 

Yeah. Well, women can multitask. Men cannot multitask. I'm sorry. Like I said, three kids, law practice, hot meal on the table every night, washing, done everything.

Was, you know, pretty impressive. Yeah. Well, I think so too. So yeah, and 

in a different time, right? Not like here where we've got a hotspot on our phone and we've got you know, we can work remotely on a laptop. You, you guys had to beat your desk. We, we can just be wherever. Absolutely. 

Yep. That's so true.

Yeah, it's very different. Yeah. We've come a long, long way. 

But I remember you telling me a story. Let's not name any names. I don't even know if they're practicing anymore, but you said like back in the day sometimes to go get all your documents signed, like your principal wouldn't even be in the office.

He'd be like down at the public bar or whatever. Yes. Like having a beer. And it was expected that you just have to go to the pub. To what? To get advice or to sign documents or what? 

Well, I can remember one story. I'm not gonna tell you which firm it was that I worked for, and the, the young girl. She, she was the one that used to go around doing the mail and getting checks signed.

So one of the solicitors sent her down to the local tavern to get the documents signed by the principal. And he was, he was not in a good, good place. But anyway, she got the docs signed, came back and told her mother, and the next morning the mother came down to the law firm and absolutely rinsed him.

And then she quit the next day. So, yeah. 

Yeah. Well I reckon if I was down at the pub. Putting some beers away signing all these legal documents. I'll probably end up on channel nine. 

Yeah. Probably these days 

with the old camera phones as they used to be called. Yeah. 

Oh, 

it, it landed some hot water, I reckon.

Mm. Maybe have capacity problems. The the C word that no one wants to hear in our game. 

Oh, I've got some really good stories, but I can't repeat them on air. What happened to me? I could have made a lot of money from suing a particular principal. Extortion. Oh, a hundred percent. Yep. 

But I guess we've seen huge movement with, with females especially in the legal industry.

I'd say it was predominantly a, a male heavy industry. Right. Like now I've got no idea with percentages, but they're are female lawyers everywhere. 

Oh, absolutely. And those 

old fuddy duddies you're talking of, they're few and far between now. Yes. Yes. 

Yeah. We've come a long, long, long way. 

Yeah. Which is great.

Alright, well on that note. 

Mm-hmm. 

Why the heck are all of your files the size of encyclopedia? Like, I've seen your desk. I would, I would say you're killing the planet. Yep. This is your chance to clear your name. 

I'm a dinosaur.

True or false? You print the emails that come in and you put 'em on the file. Yes. You still do that? 

Yes. 

Why? 

I don't dunno, in case the 

mainframe fails, 

probably. Probably. That's just the way I am. It's hard to change. I just think just to be double, double safe. I better print them and put them on the file in case something happens.

Thanks for raising that, George. Oh, well, we're here to, I'm not, we're here to stir the pot a little bit. I mean, you've 

reacted pretty well to the questions, to be fair. 

Yeah. Thanks. 

But look, I guess a true testament to your, your career and look, not here to jinx anything. Let's, let's knock on a bit of wood.

Mm-hmm. But. You've never had a claim against you in, you know, 

30 something years. Well, there you 

go. So the process works and all right, if you killed a couple of trees, whatever, at least you did a good job for your clients. 

Yeah, that's 

true. 

Yeah. At least I can shred the files after seven years and put 'em in the nesting box for the chickens today.

There you, you go the, 

the great circle of life. 

Exactly. Recycling. 

Alright, so we're gonna try and ask a unique question at the end of every podcast. So I guess we're here to raise the bar after all. So. We're gonna call it like a golden nugget. Mm. So, I guess one piece of advice, I know I've put you on the spot here, but everyone's gonna be in the same boat.

When you just think about, it doesn't have to be necessarily about conveyancing or property law or whatever. Maybe just business in general or just life. What's like just one piece of advice that's maybe sticking out to you or that one of the first things that's come to you that you'd like to share with the audience?

Hmm. Be true to yourself and believe in what you can do, and then just small steps at a time and you will get there and be surrounded by positive people. Who can help you achieve your journey because I don't think anyone can do it on their own. They need, they need support. And if you've got a good support network, yes, I did work on my own, but I had a great I had great support from my husband who encouraged me to open up my own law firm.

I said, I can't do that. He goes, yes, you can. And then in a 

time when no one was doing that as well, right. When no 

one was doing, yeah, it was different. Yeah, absolutely. And just good support and a hundred percent believe in yourself. And I think, you know, you can do anything you want when you put your mind to it.

A mate of mine, Dan Burke, shout out to Dan Burke. He said years ago, you engineer the life you want. Yes. I mean, you obviously wanted to be home with raise your family, have the kids do all that stuff, have your chickens. Yes. You know that that's the life you wanted. Right? Like you, you could have gone and been on Eagle Street and you know, we may have never seen you and there's a lot of like super successful like.

Corporates out there, especially females. Mm. But it's obviously not the life you wanted. 

No, I wanted to be a mum for, you know, first and foremost I was very proud of myself being a professional and achieving what I did on my own from two immigrant parents who you know, grew up in Greece during the war, and I think dad went to school till grade one and then the war hit.

And I don't think mom even went to school. And they came over here and made a life. And they always said to me and to my brother. You need to get educated. 'cause all their life they worked in cafes and shops and Well, that was the way 

out for that generation. Right. That was came out after World War II.

Exactly. It was And the 

kids got educated that day. Yeah. And that's how they escaped. Like your parents. I never witnessed it. I was too young. But from stories you've told, they, they were working literally seven days a week. Seven days shop. Yep. Seven milk bar. Seven. 

Yep. Seven days a week. And we grew up as latchkey kids.

You know, there was none of this being picked up in the BMW and dropped to to school and then, you know dropped off and picked up. We walked rain, hail, or shine. We walked to school. Then we would spend our weekends behind the fish and chip shop. And that was a real eye opener. 'cause you think, do I really want this life when I'm older?

No. I want to get educated and do well and, you know, give my children a better life. So my life has been a lot better than my parents and now Georgie's life and the three kids, I think. They've got a very privileged life. 

No complaints over here. I'm glad I'm born here. If I born here, if I was born over on the, the Greek islands where, where we're from.

Yes. I'd be a goat herder. I wouldn't be able to speak English and have no education. That's right. It's difficult for those guys. We we're very lucky to be in Australia. We are. Oh, Australia 

is the lucky country. Australia is the best country to live in. Absolutely no doubt about that. 

So one foot in front of the other.

That was the theme of, I guess, one of your golden nuggets there. The the Rome wasn't built in a day type thing. Yeah. I guess that's, that does ring true. That rings real true to me. Like those nights when we started, Abi and I, we didn't even have an office. 

Mm-hmm. 

I remember like just staying up till the middle of the night every night.

Yes. For years, like we had to borrow a computer monitor off, off dad from the security system Yes. To, to set ourselves up, borrow a computer. It was proper hustle days.

Congratulations. But it didn't happen overnight.

It's something I would've never 

thought it'd be what it is now. You know, we got, oh, you've 

done so well. Got 20 

amazing people that work with us and hundreds of referral partners that, that trust us to service their clients. I mean, that's, that's something when you look back and reflect, we built all these amazing relationships and, and.

The, the whole raising the bar concept is us and these other people working together and, and that even rings true right through to solicitors on the other side of deals like yourself. Yes. You know, we deal with you on the other side of matters. Mm. And it's great to work with someone that is competent.

They pick up the phone, they respond to emails. There's professional courtesies and. Let's maybe not open that Pandora's box. 'cause we could share war stories of, oh, you know, these lawyers that don't answer and they never ring you back. Mm-hmm. And it's just, we just want to try and, and spread awareness to the community that pay an extra couple of hundred bucks for your conveyancing.

And get, get someone that is a, a master of their craft and will give you a five star experience. 

A hundred percent. And I think people lose sight of the fact of the hard yards you did put in when you had to answer hundreds and hundreds of emails. And I remember you'd be up really late doing that. So, people see you today, but they don't realize how hard you've had to work to get where you are. So you reap what you sow a hundred percent, you reap what you sow and yeah, you just gotta keep plotting along and that's it. I think a lot of young people today, I hope this isn't gonna upset people, but they wanna be the CEO of a company when they've just graduated from.

Law school. Well, it doesn't work like that. You have to put in the hard yards to get to where, you know, in your journey to get to like where you are and Abi and Empire Legal are, and I'm extremely proud of what you've achieved, George. I think it's absolutely fabulous. What you've achieved, the product that you provide, you're very innovative.

Your little sister does all your social media with her degree. So I just think, you know, shout out 

to Maddy. 

Yeah. You should be so, so proud of what you achieved. And I'm extremely proud of what you have achieved. 

I just wanna say, shout out to the Empire crew. Like without you guys all doing the roles that you do.

It doesn't it, I wouldn't even be able to do something like this. Like the thought of doing this, like we've been thinking of this, like I said, for years. Yes. And here we are in the, you know we are just trialing this now. There's no way a couple of years ago I'd be able to even be in this room.

I'd be glued to the computer, taking phone calls, just responding to emails. So shout out to every single person at Empire and the people that were at Empire prior that have helped us build this machine so that we can help people buy and sell their homes. 

Yes, absolutely. You've got great support staff there.

Yeah. And also you are a great boss, so that reflects on how your employees feel about you when they're happy to go that extra mile because you do look after them. Absolutely. And that's very important too. People are the 

key. People are the key to everything. Without, like, I can't do this job without, without everyone.

Like, you know, if it was just Abi and I, it's impossible. It's, it's not, it's actually impossible. 

Yes, I agree. You've got a great support network that help you and have helped you to get to where to where you are today. 

Cool. Let's wrap it up there. Thanks everyone. We'll see how this turns out. Thanks for being the Guinea pig mum.

Oh, great. Thanks. 

Speaking of Guinea pigs, I know you are pro the empire legal Guinea pig campaign, right? You saw that on Instagram ?

Yes, I did. 

Yeah. Pro or not pro? 

Oh, well, Guinea pigs really smell, so you have to make sure you change their bedding all the time. And they breed like rabbits.

So 

maybe, yeah, look, if if they have some offspring, maybe you're gonna get a free Guinea pig with your conveyance. Watch this space pass. Thanks guys.